Transphobic Bullying

Diamondlily

I think that any adaptations that allow you to fully engage with life should be made.

Those adaptations arè made and normalised in order for people to take control of their own lives and be self sufficient where possible.

I'm sorry that my comment didn't make that clear enough for you

VioletSky

Is there something wrong with the way I am communicating doodledog that it is categorised as "confident"

I think the point of discussion is discuss ideas and I know that some people are uncomfortable with discussing ideas and prefer to just place their personal opinions rather than discuss possibilities

No, I don't see 'confident' as 'wrong'. Maybe that is your perception of my reality?

I was simply saying that you are presenting in an expert in GD, saying 'we' don't do X, but we do Y' as though you are involved in their treatment, with no humility to suggest that you may be reporting something from a handbook, and I wondered where your experience had come from?

I also wondered in a linked but separate train of thought, how many children with GD you have actually met, considering the tiny numbers in which they appear in the population.

Glaorianna

And just as you can't say that numbers are small so teaching anti-racism doesn't matter so not teaching about trans issues isn't justified because numbers are small.
I said nothing of the kind. In fact, I (and others) pointed out that racism is widespread, so even if there are no children affected by it in a particular school it is still something that all children should know about. GD, OTOH, is a medical issue, and teaching or having policies about it is akin to having policies about Gaucher Disease, or William Syndrome. Of course children with either of those randomly chosen conditions should be treated with respect and protected from bullying, but nobody would suggest that whole-school policies should be formed on the offchance that a sufferer might enrol in the school, would they?

VS I've posted them many times, you might be happier researching yourself
No you posted one a few weeks ago that was perhaps the most wobbly bit of 'science' composed of maybes and mights and possibles. It was not a verified piece of peer reviewed science. You seem to have these 'scientific facts' to hand, why suggest I research when you could easily link to the ones you've read? It is usual to back up asserted claims with links to the evidence base, so that others can also read it and assess its veracity.

Doodledog

VioletSky

Is there something wrong with the way I am communicating doodledog that it is categorised as "confident"

I think the point of discussion is discuss ideas and I know that some people are uncomfortable with discussing ideas and prefer to just place their personal opinions rather than discuss possibilities

No, I don't see 'confident' as 'wrong'. Maybe that is your perception of my reality?

I was simply saying that you are presenting in an expert in GD, saying 'we' don't do X, but we do Y' as though you are involved in their treatment, with no humility to suggest that you may be reporting something from a handbook, and I wondered where your experience had come from?

I also wondered in a linked but separate train of thought, how many children with GD you have actually met, considering the tiny numbers in which they appear in the population.

Glaorianna

And just as you can't say that numbers are small so teaching anti-racism doesn't matter so not teaching about trans issues isn't justified because numbers are small.
I said nothing of the kind. In fact, I (and others) pointed out that racism is widespread, so even if there are no children affected by it in a particular school it is still something that all children should know about. GD, OTOH, is a medical issue, and teaching or having policies about it is akin to having policies about Gaucher Disease, or William Syndrome. Of course children with either of those randomly chosen conditions should be treated with respect and protected from bullying, but nobody would suggest that whole-school policies should be formed on the offchance that a sufferer might enrol in the school, would they?

They would naturally come under the heading of disability issues Doodledog something which all schools have policies on and should a child be enrolled with any particular condition something which schools are legally bound to deal with.

VioletSky

Diamondlily

I think that any adaptations that allow you to fully engage with life should be made.

Those adaptations arè made and normalised in order for people to take control of their own lives and be self sufficient where possible.

I'm sorry that my comment didn't make that clear enough for you

They were made. I paid for them. No outside agencies were involved, because I chose not to have engagement with them.

My medics and I are quite capable, between us, of sorting out different aspects of my health.

Of course, there needs to be certain public adaptations made, such as disabled loos, lifts in stations, and dropped kerbs, but they serve everyone well.

What possible physical adaptations could be made for any mental health disorder?

I've already explained to you doodledog my use of "we". The medical community categorises these things, not me.

I'm glad you don't think there is anything wrong with the way I am communicating so thank you for explaining and of course I wouldn't try to tell you what you think or mean and try to define reality for you. Your answer explanation is good enough.

In a discussion I would like to do it in away that isn't coming across badly, hixh is why I asked.

What sort of mental health disorder Diamondlily

The NHS clearly states that gender dysphoria is not a mental illness...

If you believe it is its probably better to take it up with them but that's what I am working with unless the evidence changes

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

VioletSky

What sort of mental health disorder Diamondlily

Ok, to split hairs, I'm talking GD.

What sort of adjustment could help that?

Surely, the best and only help needed would be professional and thorough counselling to ensure that the young person was really sure of what they wanted.

When it blew up recently over the Tavistock issuing drugs out, enabling surgery etc, and then it emerged that the young adult hadn't wanted to change gender after all, many reputable medics made the point that, if there had been proper and decent counselling, these children would have realised that they had mental disorders that had nothing to do with GD or wanting to change sex.

VioletSky

The NHS clearly states that gender dysphoria is not a mental illness...

If you believe it is its probably better to take it up with them but that's what I am working with unless the evidence changes

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

It makes clear they don't know what cause it has.

The symptoms they list do not, on any level, bear any resemblance to a physical disability.

But what difference does it make?

Mental disability is often as disabling as a physical disability.

I've certainly never considered anyone with a mental health disability to be "less" of a disabled person, than one with a physical disability.

Isn't it strange that Body Integrity Dysphoria is considered a mental illness when it requires the amputation of a healthy functioning limb for that person to feel at ease with themself, but having two healthy breasts removed because they 'feel wrong' isn't? I wonder if a powerful lobby could be having any influence there?

OK gender dysphoria is not a mental illness according to the NHS or the DSM

I think we need to respect that for now

But yes, I do understand that the process of establishing the correct treatment needs careful consideration and failures have happened which must be prevented.

I think that sexism could also contribute to failings too, that, for example, a boy playing with dolls or percieved as looking "feminine" might be given the impression by parents or peers that they are trans when we should not be applying gender norms to them. I think a few people have already highlighted tht issue on this thread.

As for how we make adaptations for trans people that protect their mental health, there is the obvious surgery and attempts are already being made towards using the correct pronouns, ensuring they can get the correct medical treatment, emsuring they can dafely use a toilet or a changing area etc etc

Also a child being bullied as trans when they are not could contribute to a misdiagnoses

Just back on topic a bit

But the cass report is raising concerns about social affirmation so I am afraid we cant say those adaptations are not causing damage. There has been very poor follow up and data collection with relation to surgery.

Rosie51

Isn't it strange that Body Integrity Dysphoria is considered a mental illness when it requires the amputation of a healthy functioning limb for that person to feel at ease with themself, but having two healthy breasts removed because they 'feel wrong' isn't? I wonder if a powerful lobby could be having any influence there?

According to one of the latest leaflet gems from the NHS, which was mentioned on TV this morning, females are now "ovary havers".?

The discussion was around confusion being caused to women for whom English was not their first language.

But, as I had my ovaries removed 37 years ago, I'm wondering what gender I now am, to the NHS. ?

Diamondlily

As a person who has suffered with mental illness and physical illness that worsened it, I don't attach any sort of disdain towards mental illness at all and I am not stating that one is less valid or worse than the other.

Let's be clear

But as with the different types of bullying I mentioned being co morbid, physical and mental illness can also be comorbid

As for how we make adaptations for trans people that protect their mental health, there is the obvious surgery and attempts are already being made towards using the correct pronouns, ensuring they can get the correct medical treatment, emsuring they can dafely use a toilet or a changing area etc etc

I fully agree we need to respect that trans need to use toilets and changing rooms etc safely and feel confident doing so.

As long, of course, that they apply the same criteria to biological women.

We all need to feel safe.

As a feminist I agree diamondilily

Thankfully the equality act makes that clear

They would naturally come under the heading of disability issues Doodledog something which all schools have policies on and should a child be enrolled with any particular condition something which schools are legally bound to deal with.

Just as they are legally bound and have policies to deal with racism, however few children in the school are likely to suffer from it.

VioletSky

As a feminist I agree diamondilily

Thankfully the equality act makes that clear

It's not about being a feminist. Everyone should have the right to feel and be safe.

The Equality Act should ensure that any group of people have their own safe space, without being made to feel unsafe by another group.?

DiamondLily But, as I had my ovaries removed 37 years ago, I'm wondering what gender I now am, to the NHS.

If you are an 'owner' or 'haver' of a uterus, cervix, vagina or vulva, then I believe you can be included within the appropriate grouping. If by chance you no longer have any element on that list then I fear you are without gender, sorry.

Diamondlily

Feminism as I understand it is striving toward equality for everyone

The Equality Act makes it clear but that is being ignored as we are told anyone can use any facility they want.

Thank goodness I am without gender.