Johnson's mental health?

We always disagree on this Galaxy

We didn't fail. I'm not taking responsibility for 17 million people who can't spot a lie when they see one, and can't see beyond the end of their noses.

To me it infantilises the Leave voters, especially those who say they knew what they were voting for. They clearly didn't.

I think that remainers are guilty of complacency, although as individuals I’m not sure what we could have done.

Just like Trump being voted in, leaving the EU was such a daft idea, that we couldn’t believe it would happen.

I think we do, in fact.

MaizieD - the right don't bother ...

I wasn't fully aware of that, thanks. Ah well, it is good to be on a site where we understand each other, at least.

I dont think a lot of remainers particularly understood the complex issues either, you could argue I suppose that they were maintaining the status quo so that was ok. I think there are many issues that slip by unnoticed for years and yes its easy to be wise now, but the threat and it was a threat wasnt taken seriously and I would have liked the labour party to have over the years stressed the worth that that relationship brought us.

Charming. Narcissistic. Moderately intelligent. Remind you of anyone?

Personally, I'm worried about our next PM.

Whitewavemark2

I think that remainers are guilty of complacency, although as individuals I’m not sure what we could have done.

Just like Trump being voted in, leaving the EU was such a daft idea, that we couldn’t believe it would happen.

Absolutely.
I remember so many people who voted Leave being really quite upset that the Leave vote won.
They really didn’t believe that it would happen.
A lot of them just voted Leave it to stick one to Cameron and Blair

Galaxy

I dont think a lot of remainers particularly understood the complex issues either, you could argue I suppose that they were maintaining the status quo so that was ok. I think there are many issues that slip by unnoticed for years and yes its easy to be wise now, but the threat and it was a threat wasnt taken seriously and I would have liked the labour party to have over the years stressed the worth that that relationship brought us.

Well in a way you are right- as it was a 'yes' or 'no' vote, and no-one, but no-one had been told what kind of Brexit would be served. So no-one could be fully aware of what issues would come about. But some were very clear, whichever Brexit would eventually be put in place. We still don't know!

MaizieD

Fleurpepper

Thanks for all your contributions and thought. Very interesting.

Contributions are only coming from the left, though. The right don't bother with this forum any more...

It would be interesting to know what they think...

Unfortunately, one can't talk about Johnson without, now, talking about Brexit.

From what I can gather, many lent him their vote - those who wouldn't normally vote Right - because of it. And of course, there were those who would've voted for Satan himself rather than allow Corbyn into Number 10.

Judging by the responses on other social media sites when similar questions have been posed, it's made for depressing reading. The comments / replies have been along the lines of, "cry some more tears Leftie snowflakes" (based on the assumption that anyone who criticises Johnson is by default on the Left); and the 'Brexiter theme' - "we've left the EU, get over it" (or the variation, "get behind your country" and "go and live in the EU if you hate your country so much").

However, I too would like to hear from the more intelligent Johnson supporters - those who can articulate an argument in his favour. GN does seem to have some who are more eloquent than many of the random FB commentators. And it would be interesting to know what they think.

But on a thread where the majority opinion appears to be against the man, I can understand why some would be unwilling to stick their head above the parapet and say, "well, actually, I think... XYZ".

But on a thread where the majority opinion appears to be against the man, I can understand why some would be unwilling to stick their head above the parapet and say, "well, actually, I think... XYZ".

From time to time some do, but when asked, "but what about ABC?" they disappear.

I'd be really interested to know what actual expectations people have of a government, but the discussion doesn't take off.

I don't know if I'm the right person. I didn't vote Tory or for Brexit but I can see what Boris had. He was a refreshing change from the men in grey suits or the Corbynista. He had an interesting way with words and an apparent media personality that lots of people just, well, liked. He's obviously an unusual sort of person. I don't think he's mentally ill just different. He's aged ten years over the past few years and has given up now although he does seem very involved in the situation in Ukraine and I like that he is.
So. No answers from me. Just my perspective.

Aveline

I don't know if I'm the right person. I didn't vote Tory or for Brexit but I can see what Boris had. He was a refreshing change from the men in grey suits or the Corbynista. He had an interesting way with words and an apparent media personality that lots of people just, well, liked. He's obviously an unusual sort of person. I don't think he's mentally ill just different. He's aged ten years over the past few years and has given up now although he does seem very involved in the situation in Ukraine and I like that he is.
So. No answers from me. Just my perspective.

Thank you Aveline for taking the trouble to respond.

I think to some (especially those who knew little about him) he did have an appeal - the 'loveable shambolic rogue' and he certainly did stand out from the men in grey suits.

But he's a very ambitious individual and has since proved that he doesn't necessarily have the best interests of the nation as a whole at heart.

Without going into all the detail - what do you think of him now? Are we, as a nation, in a better place? Is Brexit really 'done' - how do you feel about the way he handled the negotiations?

Like you, I don't think he's mentally ill.

I do however agree with his former classics master, Martin Hammond, who wrote in a report to Stanley Johnson in '82 that he, Boris Johnson, believes he "should be free of the network of obligations that bind everyone" and "believes it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception".

I mention this because, to me, it sums up the man succinctly without going into a tirade of accusations or insults. What do you think?

I entirely agree with Martin Hammond. However, I do think that an occasional maverick can be useful. Boris has shaken us up. Shaken politics up which maybe it needed. God help Truss or Sunak. It's definitely the beginning of the end for the Tories but who could take over? They're all duds it seems to me although I think Starmer is a decent chap he's not exactly got the personality to lead. No easy answers.

A maverick? He has shaken up things indeed, and they all fell to the bottom, and people got hurt, many died. The world has lost trust in the UK, and it has become the laughing stock, and taken over the USA on that front. And there is no light at the end of that tunnel either.

Wait and see. We're not necessarily all doomed! We've had bad times before. I well remember the 70s and 80s as well as 2008 of course.
There'll soon be another government. Ideally a govt of national unity but that's a pretty forlorn hope.

Aveline

I entirely agree with Martin Hammond. However, I do think that an occasional maverick can be useful. Boris has shaken us up. Shaken politics up which maybe it needed. God help Truss or Sunak. It's definitely the beginning of the end for the Tories but who could take over? They're all duds it seems to me although I think Starmer is a decent chap he's not exactly got the personality to lead. No easy answers.

I think Starmer is a decent chap he's not exactly got the personality to lead.

It seems quite a few people now want their country's leader to have a distinctive character, and I think I know what you mean about Starmer - he's not exactly an 'engaging' person.

After what we've been through since 2019 though, I'd settle for the "decent chap".

There's so much at stake, and a lot of lives and livelihoods are going to be affected by the next government and its leader that I personally am prepared to accept someone - anyone - who will steer the ship with a steady and confident hand, so to speak.

We're now a very divided nation - I think we always have been TBH, but the contrast is now stark. Anyone who can to some extent pull the country together and do what is in the best interests of the whole will get my vote. I don't see any chance of this happening under Truss or Sunak. And if we are talking about 'personality' - I don't see it in either of them... your "duds" is an apt description IMO!

In an odd way, the nation actually is coming together... the 'shop floor' and the elite professionals have both had enough and are united to some extent.

Deep down, I still have the feeling that Johnson will attempt a comeback. He still has a lot of support, and he and his ego are aware of that.

Do you not think Johnson will be off in another direction? More journalism/writing or TV work? He must be relieved to be out of the hot seat.

I’m not convinced Johnson is relieved to be out of the hot seat. He seems to need and enjoy centre stage and power

Whilst Keir Starmer might not be a 'personality' I do believe he has the personality and qualities to lead us out of this mess. He seems balanced, organised, sensible compared to Johnson, Sunak and Truss. He has a will to help others rather than himself.

twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1563067579119329280

All we know about Johnson is supposition based on media info. No point in projecting personal prejudice on to him.
Starmer seems OK. Again we only know what the media tells us.

Aveline

All we know about Johnson is supposition based on media info. No point in projecting personal prejudice on to him.
Starmer seems OK. Again we only know what the media tells us.

We know more than that, Aveline. We have the testimony of people who have been his work colleagues and bosses over many years. We have his own actions and words. He's not exactly a shrinking violet who keeps himself to himself. And we have had almost daily examples of his lies, incompetence and corruption over the past few years; not just his stint as PM but his high profile leadership of the Vote Leave campaign.

I think we have had plenty to go on with which to make our judgements.

Maybe he's just totally selfish and has been brought up to think he is the only person that truly matters.

Political insiders say that Johnson thinks Truss will implode, within a year, and another Tory leadership contest will be needed.

At that point, he feels he can rise again.

Hopefully not.?

Yes, I’ve thought that that was going to happen for a while.
I’d put money on it.
It ties in with his ridiculous Churchill fixation too.
It will probably all happen while Labour are squabbling amongst themselves, and we’ll be stuck with the Tories for perpetuity.

(It’s being so cheerful that keeps me going )

More and more like Trump then. Perhaps they have common ( using the word advisedly) ancestors ?

DiamondLily

Political insiders say that Johnson thinks Truss will implode, within a year, and another Tory leadership contest will be needed.

At that point, he feels he can rise again.

Hopefully not.?

Let's hope that his short lived successor hasn't stripped out the Lytle decor from the no. 11 flat then. He'd have to go through all the bother of finding a rich donor to pay for its reinstatement

I do wonder how all these people with money supposedly acquired because of their perspicacity and great business acumen are willing to part with large quantities of their wealth to a worthless scrounger...