How soon before the next step to privatising the state schools?

Parents paying say £15k - £25k a year at a private school aren't doing so just to buy a better education than on offer in state schools. It is the value added they want, eg. in practical terms - extra curricular activities, mini buses to pick their children up at 7.30 am and deliver them home at 6 pm, locally sourced handmade meals - and that's before good discipline, pastoral care, snary uniform etc are mentioned.
That may seem ludicrous to most people but these things rate high on others' lists, especially, for some reason, where younger children are concerned.

DD has a tutor group of 28 this year. Some English classes have 32 or 33 pupils.

15-25k ? wow, where?

Doodledog

If state schools offer such a good education, why do those who approve of private education think that parents spend so much money to send their children there?

Sorry, my post was to Doodledog and snary(?) uniform should read smart uniform.

Of course the basic fee of 30+ k is just the basic- music, danse, trips, uniform and so much more are on top and represent a good 1/3 more. Never mind boarding, or boarding with a poney!

All state schools should be well enough funded by the government so that children from all backgrounds have the opportunities to reach their potential - whatever that may be.
Best sentence on this post.
Well enough funded, well enough equipped is an excellent target. Look at the NFF and see how difficult it is to fund schools in a way that looks fair to all stakeholders.
Posters who have mentioned the leaching of funds by educational providers since the introduction of academies make a good point.
**Another difficulty faced by some schools before Pupil Premium and the NFF was introduced is being in an area historically identified as a “good area” where there are still disadvantaged children.
My children went to state schools. I’m still teaching in the state system, in a school which was affected by ** above.
Obviously I’d like state education to be better and more fairly funded. I just don’t see banning private schools as a way to do it.

Joseanne

Parents paying say £15k - £25k a year at a private school aren't doing so just to buy a better education than on offer in state schools. It is the value added they want, eg. in practical terms - extra curricular activities, mini buses to pick their children up at 7.30 am and deliver them home at 6 pm, locally sourced handmade meals - and that's before good discipline, pastoral care, snary uniform etc are mentioned.
That may seem ludicrous to most people but these things rate high on others' lists, especially, for some reason, where younger children are concerned.

Yes, I can see that, but shouldn't those things be available to all children?

With a fairer tax system they could be.

Why on earth should those things seem ludicrous to most people? It's what most people want for their own children, but at £25k a year, fees are about the same as the average gross income.

Mollygo That's precisely why I haven't advocated banning private schools, although I'd love to see them disappear because they're no better than state schools. Increasingly, the UK is seeing some private schools' relying on overseas students because they're having to create a market rather than fulfilling a genuine need.

My concern all along has been the leaching of funds, of which I don't think most people even seem to be aware.

Just to add:
I believe good school lunches should be free for all state school pupils.

Building a Better Britain.

M0nica

Lists do not have to be written. Just PTA's asking the school what they would like them to spend the money raised to help the school on, and I have yet to meet a head teacher that didn't have one or two items from the small and trivial to the quite expensive on the tip of their tongues.

How many secondary schools still have PTAs?

Fleurpepper

Of course the basic fee of 30+ k is just the basic- music, danse, trips, uniform and so much more are on top and represent a good 1/3 more. Never mind boarding, or boarding with a poney!

Here the cost is £4-6,000 a term for a day student, discounts for multiple children in a family (price age dependent).

growstuff

M0nica

Lists do not have to be written. Just PTA's asking the school what they would like them to spend the money raised to help the school on, and I have yet to meet a head teacher that didn't have one or two items from the small and trivial to the quite expensive on the tip of their tongues.

How many secondary schools still have PTAs?

True growstuff. None of the schools I've worked in have had them. Never thought about it until you mentioned it.

One of the key differences between state and private/public school is the length of the school day.
Once 13 our boys started at 8.40am and finished at 8.30pm.
In this time all meals were eaten, 90 minutes of sport played, all homework done and an extra curricular activity.
In the lower school it was 6.30pm.

Sago

One of the key differences between state and private/public school is the length of the school day.
Once 13 our boys started at 8.40am and finished at 8.30pm.
In this time all meals were eaten, 90 minutes of sport played, all homework done and an extra curricular activity.
In the lower school it was 6.30pm.

True. Apart from lessons, including PE/sport, the fees pay for 3 meals a day, supervision of ‘homework’ tasks, extra-curricular activities-although those were often an extra and childcare. In addition, private school holidays are longer, because they condense the teaching into longer days. I’ve attached a link so you can see what I mean. www.educationtay.com/private-school-days/

That’s something a government or even state school parents don’t take into account when they want to make school days longer. Longer school days-more teaching crammed in - I can hear the applause!
But longer holidays to find childcare for because they’ve already had their teaching time? I can imagine the booing which seems to have become fashionable recently.

Are state schools free, though? The pupils still have to buy uniforms, books , computers etc and pay for outings and trips. At least they do here. I figure those sending kids to private schools have already paid taxes, some of which go to state schools. They are,in fact, subsidising state schools because they are creating vacancies which they have already paid for. Just saying.

I've only ever heard this view on GN. People using private education (or healthcare) are freeing up a space for another person. They're just saintly, really. It's tantamount to altruism. ?

Guess I should get out more.

volver

I've only ever heard this view on GN. People using private education (or healthcare) are freeing up a space for another person. They're just saintly, really. It's tantamount to altruism. ?

Guess I should get out more.

Private education and healthcare do free up space.

Well done you, learning.

Don't worry, everyone.

If the OP is correct, then all schools will become private schools. ?

(In England anyway)

volver

I've only ever heard this view on GN. People using private education (or healthcare) are freeing up a space for another person. They're just saintly, really. It's tantamount to altruism. ?

Guess I should get out more.

And it even happens in Scotland!?

I don’t think it frees up places though.

Norah

volver

I've only ever heard this view on GN. People using private education (or healthcare) are freeing up a space for another person. They're just saintly, really. It's tantamount to altruism. ?

Guess I should get out more.

Private education and healthcare do free up space.

Well done you, learning.

Do they teach patronising condescension at these wonderful schools? Or is that just something you're born with?

I think it is taking it a bit far to suggest that parents at fee paying schools are busy polishing their halos at freeing up a space for another pupil. I've never read any questionnaire answers, to why have you chosen a private education, which say, "because we are so selfless we want to free up a place for another child."

A few pages ago these same parents were actually criticised for being callous, and not giving a caring thought to other working class children.
It seems to me people just want to take a pop at them from every direction.

Joseanne

I think it is taking it a bit far to suggest that parents at fee paying schools are busy polishing their halos at freeing up a space for another pupil. I've never read any questionnaire answers, to why have you chosen a private education, which say, "because we are so selfless we want to free up a place for another child."

A few pages ago these same parents were actually criticised for being callous, and not giving a caring thought to other working class children.
It seems to me people just want to take a pop at them from every direction.

Well said.

Joseanne

I think it is taking it a bit far to suggest that parents at fee paying schools are busy polishing their halos at freeing up a space for another pupil. I've never read any questionnaire answers, to why have you chosen a private education, which say, "because we are so selfless we want to free up a place for another child."

A few pages ago these same parents were actually criticised for being callous, and not giving a caring thought to other working class children.
It seems to me people just want to take a pop at them from every direction.

It is true, though!
When our new comprehensive school was opened, applications for places went up that year and applications for the independent schools went down. Some children not in catchment who might normally have been considered for places at the comprehensive school (eg those just out of catchment area, sibling at the school) didn't get them.

I think it's fair to assume that most people who choose private schools want to get their children the things that state schools can't offer, such as contacts/networks, small class sizes, extra-curricular activities and so on, and it is easier to pay for these things (if you can afford them) than to work with schools to ensure that they are available to all. It's probably also fair to assume that the same logic that makes people fume that their degrees are less valuable now that more people have them means that many people don't want the advantages of private education to be available to all - it would reduce the advantages that they are paying good money to acquire for their own offspring.