Eddie Izzard

icanhandthemback

I don't see a "threat" in the post by VioletSky on Sun 02-Oct-22 at 12:22:50.

In our area we have public toilets that are unisex. They are sturdily built, have their own sinks and open up directly on to the car park. If anyone has had a wank there whilst I've been weeing, I am none the wiser. All our disabled toilets are unisex and if you have to use the toilet at a Garage, they often are too.

I think there is a way to have a unisex toilet but as someone who suffers from IBS where accidents happen, I don't want to be cleaning up in full view of a single sex group or unisex area.

I get the Safe Space for women, I really do. I am also a sexual abuse survivor but if I didn't believe that the majority of men don't want to threaten, abuse or hurt me, I'd go mad. Once I walk into a sturdy cubicle with no viewing holes, I have my safe space.

I really think there is a way forward for women to feel safe, transgender people (who are equally unsafe in a man's toilet) to feel safe and for us all to be protected when it comes to toilets. In other spaces, like Women's Shelters, I feel totally differently.

Completely rational and reasonable

We can protect women, keep safe spaces and protect trans people. It's all very doable.

And doing so for a minority group is a sign of an enlightened and accepting society.

We do not have to sacrifice anyone's rights or needs in order to have ours met. Doing so would not be a kind of feminism I would want to be involved in.

Abusive men is a very seperate issue and I would hope we all do what we can to fight abuse.

Abuse needs to be fought on many fronts because I honestly cannot say what was worse, the abuse done by men or the sinister subtle, mental health destroying abuse from women.

Message deleted as it quotes a deleted post.

Lathyrus

I reported you for the reasons I stated.

That you were not being honest and accusing me of making jokes about what I would never joke about.

Also stating that I would probably claim having been a victim in some way was pretty awful.

I'm sorry you don't like it but I am always honest and will say when someone is being unfair or untrue about me as a person.

I will flounce now as its become too dark and personal for me. I value my happiness.

We can protect womens spaces it's very doable, by letting men in them presumably.

If Glorianny is happy to use the male toilets, and she still hasn't said why she doesn't care about any discomfort she causes males using the urinals, why couldn't Eddie just use the mens too? Why did he have to use the ladies, other than doing the 'scent marking' so many males do, and demonstrating his male privilege?
VS I'm appalled at your dismissive and quite frankly disturbing attitude towards the genuine concerns and discomforts some women have about the breaches of single sex spaces. You hadn't read the article or you'd have known the photo was taken outside the toilets in a public hall. None the less you used your error to escalate your posts to beyond ridiculous. You say you're a survivor of sexual abuse and rape, but then feel able to make jokes about The idea that just a layer or two of flimsy materiel is all that stands between me and a possible penis in a public space is just.... Well it's terrifying really My friend's daughter who was brutally raped and beaten is still uncomfortable and fearful around strange men in enclosed spaces. Eddie Izzard, like so many men in dresses, is still clearly a man. Why should she have to cope with distress because the likes of him don't give a damn about anybody else? It's almost like they get off on knowing they're causing discomfort, all part of the thrill eh? Eddie thinks he 'passes' because he says old women look like men. Nice eh?
I agree Mollygo, that post is horrible and unnecessary, but her others were escalating. It's one huge joke, amazing for someone who gets triggered so easily at other times.

Abuse needs to be fought on many fronts because I honestly cannot say what was worse, the abuse done by men or the sinister subtle, mental health destroying abuse from women.

I'm trying not to explode here, in case this is badly written rather than unspeakably insulting.

Are you saying that only women carry out 'subtle, mental health destroying abuse'? If you really believe that, you have no idea about the lives of many women who have suffered exactly that at the hands of men. Of course psychological abusers are of both sexes, and I would love to see proper research (please not from articles in pop-psychology magazines or websites) that suggests otherwise.

Rape, by definition, is carried out by men. Not all men, and not usually by transmen, but rape happens often enough to make 'safe' spaces for women a necessity. We can't ban only rapists, so the only way to ensure women's safety is to ban all men. Like it or not, transwomen are men, so they have to be banned too. Rather than have women 'deal with it', why shouldn't having transwomen in male loos become normalised? Why should it always be women who have to 'be kind', regardless of the risks to their safety?

VioletSky

Lathyrus

I reported you for the reasons I stated.

That you were not being honest and accusing me of making jokes about what I would never joke about.

Also stating that I would probably claim having been a victim in some way was pretty awful.

I'm sorry you don't like it but I am always honest and will say when someone is being unfair or untrue about me as a person.

I will flounce now as its become too dark and personal for me. I value my happiness.

Please remember this the next time you say that you never report people? It happens every time, as does the flounce, with the implication that people are impacting on your MH, despite your utter disregard for the MH of anyone else who is upset by you making jokes about abusive behaviour and the mockery of those who are concerned about it.

Why should it always be women who have to 'be kind', regardless of the risks to their safety?

This, the 'be kind' put everyone else first, especially if they're male
.
Transwomen offenders may be sent to the female estate because they would be 'unsafe' in the male estate. Well so are lots of other men.....pretty, young men are very vulnerable to rape in male prisons, should we put them in with the women too? Paedophiles are vulnerable in male prisons so should we put them in the female estate? Oh yes we already do if they are now transwomen.
Of course the fact these people may be a danger to the women incarcerated with them is just waved away.
Women's rights were hard won, now they are being surrendered at an unprecedented rate. And what is absolutely sickening is the women happy to give away other women's rights, while preening themselves on how inclusive and kind they are. It started with language, progresses onto spaces and sports, awards etc Will it only end when we've been completely subjugated to men once again?

VioletSky

Lathyrus

I reported you for the reasons I stated.

That you were not being honest and accusing me of making jokes about what I would never joke about.

Also stating that I would probably claim having been a victim in some way was pretty awful.

I'm sorry you don't like it but I am always honest and will say when someone is being unfair or untrue about me as a person.

I will flounce now as its become too dark and personal for me. I value my happiness.

I’m reporting this post too because yet again you are accusing me of telling lies about my experience of assault in a public toilet. In addition to responding to my first post about my experience as “the best joke”

It was frightening and traumatic. Only a sheet of plywood separated me from the perpetrator with a gap at the top that he could have looked or possibly climbed over.

I didn’t know whether to stay in the cubicle or try to run, I was terrified that if he didn’t succeed in achieving climax by himself he would use me.

In your own words Stating that I would falsely claim to have been a victimless s pretty awful. But that is what you have done twice on this thread.

Just remembering and typing it in is making my heart pound but I won’t be silenced by you. Not until you report me that is.

Galaxy

Nothing to do with transpeople. Men. No men. All men. Not targeted. Treated the same as any other man.

Exactly!

That is a terrifying situation Lathyrus.

Until recently, only the most determined of abusive men would go into a women's toilet.
Now people like Glorianny and VioletSky are saying it's fine for any man to go in, which will include the more casually abusive men and the 'it's a laugh' men - none of whom women want to share toilets with.

However much flippancy & ridicule & non sequiturs & false equivalents & inaccuracies are produced by VioletSky and Glorianny on this thread, anyone reading it can understand the facts of the matter.

Some people have lost the argument, I think.

The accusations of hounding and bullying will be next, despite the fact that Lathyrus has been so badly treated and FN was accused of something she so blatantly obviously didn't do.

Rosie51

If Glorianny is happy to use the male toilets, and she still hasn't said why she doesn't care about any discomfort she causes males using the urinals, why couldn't Eddie just use the mens too? Why did he have to use the ladies, other than doing the 'scent marking' so many males do, and demonstrating his male privilege?
VS I'm appalled at your dismissive and quite frankly disturbing attitude towards the genuine concerns and discomforts some women have about the breaches of single sex spaces. You hadn't read the article or you'd have known the photo was taken outside the toilets in a public hall. None the less you used your error to escalate your posts to beyond ridiculous. You say you're a survivor of sexual abuse and rape, but then feel able to make jokes about The idea that just a layer or two of flimsy materiel is all that stands between me and a possible penis in a public space is just.... Well it's terrifying really My friend's daughter who was brutally raped and beaten is still uncomfortable and fearful around strange men in enclosed spaces. Eddie Izzard, like so many men in dresses, is still clearly a man. Why should she have to cope with distress because the likes of him don't give a damn about anybody else? It's almost like they get off on knowing they're causing discomfort, all part of the thrill eh? Eddie thinks he 'passes' because he says old women look like men. Nice eh?
I agree Mollygo, that post is horrible and unnecessary, but her others were escalating. It's one huge joke, amazing for someone who gets triggered so easily at other times.

I said that we always checked before hand Rosie51 that there were no men using the toilets and kept watch in case any came.

Perhaps the Ladies loo had things Eddie needed that the Gents didn't, like a decent mirror to check your make up. You simply have no idea but you are quite happy to apply your own prejudices and strange obsessions, like men "scent marking" to him. I wonder do all men do this? Are your husbands busy scent marking your houses? (ugh)

And what would you have said to a man who urgently needed a lavatory, Glorianny? Told him to go the ladies?

SueDonim

And what would you have said to a man who urgently needed a lavatory, Glorianny? Told him to go the ladies?

Told him we wouldn't be two minutes and pointed out if he was a woman he'd have to join the queue and wait much longer. Now that's a real example of male privilege. Men should just walk in - women join the queue!

Transwomen offenders may be sent to the female estate because they would be 'unsafe' in the male estate. Well so are lots of other men.....pretty, young men are very vulnerable to rape in male prisons, should we put them in with the women too? Paedophiles are vulnerable in male prisons so should we put them in the female estate?

Absolutely not. What I think is that those in danger in a Man's prison, no matter if they are young and pretty, transgender, etc., should be protected within their own environment. I think there are safety issues which can be addressed in say, public toilets to keep women safe, and those within single sex institutions where they can't.

Lathyrus, nobody should be making light of anybody who has experienced abuse. What we should be doing is talking to abuse victims and working out how your fears can be alleviated. For example, in a lot of restaurants, there is only one toilet for each sex and possibly a disabled toilets. They are often next door to each other so just a wall between them and waiting outside would mean a mixed sex area. Is that something you would use? Is it just the structure (spaces above and below with flimsy walls) that triggers that unsafe feeling?

I feel that with the right consultation, we could move towards mixed areas with maybe one single sex toilet for born women who really feel threatened. I think, in time, many people who are worried about this subject would feel less threatened.

Otherwise, I'd stop if I were you, it's just not a good look

I also think that 'I'd stop if I were you' sounds threatening.

Yes, on its own, out of context, it sounds threatening. With the rest of the sentence, it basically says If you don't want to look bad, stop what you are writing. That is not threatening. As you are someone who is normally brilliant at accurately summarising things, DoodleDog, IMO this just seemed like something which was exaggerated.

How selfish of you to hog an entire block of toilets just because you didn’t want to wait. And if that man had had the aforementioned bad curry and needed a cubicle now?

Whilst it might be annoying for women that men can access easy facilities, the facilities are there so why shouldn’t they use them?

I for one am not going to stop writing so what now.

Glorianny or trisher, or whoever,
“Perhaps the Ladies loo had things Eddie needed that the Gents didn't, like a decent mirror to check your make up.”
So why not campaign for male toilets to have mirrors instead of using this as another pathetic excuse to use female spaces.
Oh, I know why, because that wouldn’t allow males in dresses or TIM into female spaces and that would never do for you.

Quite aside from the dangers of any old Tom Dick and Harry barging into women's toilets whenever they feel the need to don a tight mini skirt and some vertiginous heels, if Eddie Izzard insists on turning himself into a faux woman, does he really think any self respecting 60 year old female would wish to describe herself as a "girl" or worse still a "girly" a word that used to be synonymous with soft porn mags. I really think he doesn't understand women at all.

Incidentally on the wider subject of women only spaces the recent implementation of mixed changing areas in some of our leading clothing stores, have already produced a flurry of complaints such as two men barging in a a curtained off cubicle where one furious young woman was in a state of undress. Opportunists indeed! why would two men undress in one small cubicle together. Then there was a man changing into a pair of trousers, in view of others, without any under wear! Ask any man you respect such as a husband or partner whether he would be wanting to use such facilities I'm pretty sure I know most men would be as uncomfortable with such a situation as so many of us women are horrified that a prospective MP is validating potentially dangerous scenarios for women and actual "girls" that's young females who haven't reached maturity as opposed to 60 year old transvestites with flicky hair and glittery nails whose whims are dictating girl/y mode today

Lathyrus I can see after reading back that after your jokey sounding comment about golden showers, you said that you have been attacked in a toilet. I did not see that the first time. I am deeply sorry that happened to you.

For the sake of anyone who can read context. I will say that the only statements I took offence to of yours were the ones that say I was joking about rape and assault and the one saying I would now "claim that happened to me".

That is what I said was untrue and disgusting and I have explained that several times.

I can see that you have obviously read something into my comments you have found upsetting and I am sorry for that but I am telling you now that you are misreading my comments.

I do not find rape and assault funny.

I do not make "claims"

1. I find the idea that all trans people are potentially dangerous people women need protection from ridiculous and I have clearly let that be known.

2. I have always advocated for safe spaces for women who need them.

For you and others those two statements cannot both be true. I disagree. I believe we can protect everyone rights equally without discrimination. I believe everyone can be safe and everyone can access life as their own gender.

Always have, always will

Glorianny I said that we always checked before hand Rosie51 that there were no men using the toilets and kept watch in case any came.
Wow, how lucky have you been on multiple occasions? Long queues for the ladies loos, but not a single bloke using the mens! Can't say I've ever seen other than both sets of toilets were in use. Standing in the queue witnessing a constant stream in and out of the mens always cues a moan

I believe everyone can be safe and everyone can access life as their own gender.
There's that meaningless word again 'gender'. The only word that can be defined is sex. Sex is immutable, it can be determined from the tiniest sample of DNA from any human. Gender is whatever anybody wants it to mean, it has no definition. If you ask advocates to define gender they can't, other than using circular arguments, or resorting to retrogressive sex stereotypes and labelling them 'genders'.