Suella Braverman’s speech…

grannypiper

growstuff

What illegal immigration? It isn't illegal to enter the UK and seek asylum.

You are right growstuff but there are too many migrants that arrive and don't seek asylum many of them disappear into thin air.

How do you know? If they "disappear"?

Intuition?

like Brits on the Costas you mean?

growstuff

What illegal immigration? It isn't illegal to enter the UK and seek asylum.

You are right growstuff but there are too many migrants that arrive and don't seek asylum many of them disappear into thin air.

Galaxy

Only if you set higher standards for immigrants than you do for others which is what James o Brien did. It is I am afraid one of the dangers of identity politics. He saw everything she said through the prism of her identity so to speak. It makes some people very cross if people from certain groups wont behave in the way those people think they should.

He did, And it makes perfect sense to me.

Remember Arthur Miller's 'View from the Bridge'

about one wave of Italian immigrants turning against a later wave of italian immigrants. First lot had found a place in society, after a lot of pain, but didn't want that next wave to upset the apple-cart.

A large proportion of Lepen's supporters in France are 2nd, 3rd generation Italians, Spanish, Polish, etc, immigrants. Same reaction. And yes, their parents, grandparent's origins are relevant. Totally. Because they, fo all people, should know what it feels like.

Same for anyone whose family has been discriminated or abused.

I hope that Suella Braverman’s dream never comes true
Refugees do not make arduous and deadly journeys to the UK for fun. The government’s Rwanda policy is vile and negligent.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/rwanda-refugees-suella-braverman-jeremy-corbyn-b2201237.html

The Tories were once known as “the Nasty Party” and here they are again. That’s what I thought when she talked of “taking a stick to the unemployed”.

Disgusting but what can you expect from an extreme right Tory?

So, Galaxy. If I'm understanding you correctly, an analogy would be:

If a father sexually abuses his daughter we can disapprove of the deed, but we cannot add an extra layer of disapproval related to the fact that it a father abusing his child because that would be identity politics and that's not allowed?

Only if you set higher standards for immigrants than you do for others which is what James o Brien did. It is I am afraid one of the dangers of identity politics. He saw everything she said through the prism of her identity so to speak. It makes some people very cross if people from certain groups wont behave in the way those people think they should.

Apologies, I should not say it is nonsense. But that it does not make sense at all- it is not about ethnicity- it is about pulling the bridge after them.

Galaxy

The same as I feel about all holocaust deniers. I dont judge people by their race/ethnicity or try not to anyway.

Sorry, but this is nonsense. We are not talking about ethnicity here, but about certain people who have availed themselves of the chance to seek a better life here and to succeed. In this case they happen to belong to certain ethnic groups who did just that. Same as Huguenots in the past.

I have very good friends who are Jews, from Israel. They are totally pro Palestine and against Israeli aggression, destruction and ethnic cleansing. The fact they are Jews makes this all the more poignant.

The same as I feel about all holocaust deniers. I dont judge people by their race/ethnicity or try not to anyway.

How would you feel if Jews were Holocaust deniers? Perhaps?

MaizieD

^If he had said people who despise immigrants that would have been grand but he linked it to their background/ethnicity.^

It's their background ethnicity that makes it all the more shocking, Galaxy.

Exactly, the whole point.

Her family got the chance to seek a better life and settle in the UK. Same for Priti Patel. And now they want to pull the bridge. THAT is the whole point.

volver

I think that people's background has an impact on how they think and how they act. It's not the only thing that does, but to ignore how we have been brought up, our childhood experiences and what we have been conditioned to think, is ignoring a major part of our character.

My daughter is currently back working for the Civil Service in a "secure" environment. Before she was allowed to take up the post, she had to go through all sorts of checks on her political beliefs, etc. They even wanted to know the name and date of birth/address of her parents and I guess we were checked out too. Part of her vetting was what her attitude would be to dealing with people who had done really horrendous things.

If civil servants have to go through that, why not politicians in high office?

Great points RPJ

GrannyGravy13

volver

I think that people's background has an impact on how they think and how they act. It's not the only thing that does, but to ignore how we have been brought up, our childhood experiences and what we have been conditioned to think, is ignoring a major part of our character.

Blimey volver I find myself in total agreement with you.

Our early experiences and the people around us definitely have influence on who we are and how we react if only at a subliminal level.

Yes.

volver

I think that people's background has an impact on how they think and how they act. It's not the only thing that does, but to ignore how we have been brought up, our childhood experiences and what we have been conditioned to think, is ignoring a major part of our character.

Blimey volver I find myself in total agreement with you.

Our early experiences and the people around us definitely have influence on who we are and how we react if only at a subliminal level.

Yes saw that.

He is in - guess where. - the home office now.

I am centre left there are arses there too WW. We all behaved like grown ups in that disagreement, someone needs to mention Meghan so we can get back to normal.
I see an officer in the Met has just been suspended for their racist WhatsApp messages. What a mess it all is.

I think that people's background has an impact on how they think and how they act. It's not the only thing that does, but to ignore how we have been brought up, our childhood experiences and what we have been conditioned to think, is ignoring a major part of our character.

If he had said people who despise immigrants that would have been grand but he linked it to their background/ethnicity.

It's their background ethnicity that makes it all the more shocking, Galaxy.

galaxy I would not class O’Brian as left tbh. He vehemently was against Corbyn.

I see him as centre left - in other words where most people are in the U.K. politically.

Im not convinced by your argument, but happy to leave it there?

'Great Britain' is the name of an island and does not signify 'great' in the sense of moral rectitude or imperial power.

The British state no longer wields imperial power and has not done so for a long time, since the end of the war approximately. And never again will rule over colonies abroad.

The Conservatives have lost it economically according to the experts and even according to many in their own party.