Braverman's behaviour in parliament today proves nothing has changed.

I'm not sure that helps...

The Albanian criminal gangs have gained a foothold in Northern France controlling all manner of vile criminality.
What does France think about this and the population of Northern France?

Whitewavemark2

Apparently the whips were not put into place to defend Braverman - which suggests that No 10 is wavering on this.

Williamson is also being looked at regarding security risks. He resigned for being leaky.

As I have suggested, I think this is a question of tactics and therefore timing. That doesn't make it feel any better but if you ignore anything other than the infighting in the Tory so-called Party, it is bound to happen.

She will go. I imagine he is being advised. I imagine that advice is to do as much damage to the group (ERG) and as little to the party. It's not great. I would like to think they were all completely altruistic beings but even I am not that naive.

Urmstongran

The Albanian criminal gangs have gained a foothold in Northern France controlling all manner of vile criminality.
What does France think about this and the population of Northern France?

Where do you get this stuff UG. You rarely quote a source.

It's impossible to believe that Sunak didn't realise that re-appointing Braverman was going to result in this backlash, so we have to ask the obvious question of why.
Were ERG cabinet appointments, particularly Braverman, the "price" he had to pay to get his hands on the keys to number 10?
If true, then this government is just as rotten as Johnson's and Truss's, are the British public going to turn a blind eye for the next 2 years?

Interesting that Tim Shipman (political editor Sunday Times) reported this story of 'multiple breaches' yesterday (I linked to it on another thread). I wonder if his 'source' was Berry?

Sunak's Cabinet could be falling apart even earlier than expected...

We badly need that general election...

I could take offence about you not having read my previous posts at this point Normandygirl.

He will have known exactly what backlash (give or take a bit) there would be. There are a couple of reasons why he did it. They are not "good" reasons, but they are excellent political reasons, and all parties indulge in those and have to bear with looking stupid for a while.

The first was the need to get elected. To do this he needed to not have an election and it not to go to the members. The ERG Three will have promised not only their own votes but those of their 'fellow travellers'. Otherwise they would have voted with whoever was nearest to 100 votes and driven it to and election.

The second is that she is actually providing and amazing smoke screen. I bet he is greatful to be able to get on with the work he needs to do. While you (and the press) are attacking her they are attacking him less.

I don't think it is as bad as Johnson and Truss as I (personally) wonder about Johnson's mental health or mental condition and Truss's ability. It's a very small step in the way forward but it could be one we have to go through.

Normandygirl

It's impossible to believe that Sunak didn't realise that re-appointing Braverman was going to result in this backlash, so we have to ask the obvious question of why.
Were ERG cabinet appointments, particularly Braverman, the "price" he had to pay to get his hands on the keys to number 10?
If true, then this government is just as rotten as Johnson's and Truss's, are the British public going to turn a blind eye for the next 2 years?

It was a trade off.

Urmstongran

The Albanian criminal gangs have gained a foothold in Northern France controlling all manner of vile criminality.
What does France think about this and the population of Northern France?

I can't quote exactly from le monde because it was last month I read the articles while in France. The reports were about gangs in northern French towns, especially Lille and Antwerp in Belgium. There were figures about violent crime related to the drug traffickers, including murders. It caught my eye because usually French newspapers focus on Moroccans, but this time it was definitely Albanians.

Normandygirl

It's impossible to believe that Sunak didn't realise that re-appointing Braverman was going to result in this backlash, so we have to ask the obvious question of why.
Were ERG cabinet appointments, particularly Braverman, the "price" he had to pay to get his hands on the keys to number 10?
If true, then this government is just as rotten as Johnson's and Truss's, are the British public going to turn a blind eye for the next 2 years?

Yes

Whitewavemark2

Normandygirl

It's impossible to believe that Sunak didn't realise that re-appointing Braverman was going to result in this backlash, so we have to ask the obvious question of why.
Were ERG cabinet appointments, particularly Braverman, the "price" he had to pay to get his hands on the keys to number 10?
If true, then this government is just as rotten as Johnson's and Truss's, are the British public going to turn a blind eye for the next 2 years?

Yes

But then they are as rotten as any government we have lived through. Are you seriously saying that they haven't all been politicians, negotiating their way to power? They have.

Just because you prefer the message of some doesn't mean that the methods weren't exactly the same. That seems very naive.

volver I do not give a flying fig if it’s a teenager or a burly man with a beard I personally do not want to find them in or on my property.

Regardless of their ethnicity or country of origin it is a fact that some of the immigrants are of the criminal fraternity.

What we need is an effective screening process, if they are a badden then straight home.

(Totally off course but there is a case in Liverpool, just made public by the courts/police were an Afghan immigrant claiming to be 16 raped a female, it has been proven that he is in fact 21, so the full force of the law can be used)

Maybe we should stop selling arms to other countries thereby enabling wars that result in refugees travelling to other countries.

MayBee70

Maybe we should stop selling arms to other countries thereby enabling wars that result in refugees travelling to other countries.

Is there a war in Albania?

MayBee70

Maybe we should stop selling arms to other countries thereby enabling wars that result in refugees travelling to other countries.

Our armaments are currently enabling the remaining Ukrainian population/army to stop the Russians overrunning their Country.

I abhor war, we have seen our AC in the most unspeakable circumstances in wars overseas. You cannot just have the bad guys having access to weaponry, and no country is going to voluntarily unilaterally disarm.

It's like action replay seeing ministers being sent out to defend the actions of the P.M.Ring any bells ?
Isn't it evident that Braverman was slotted back in to get the support of the far right wing, after making a deal.

DaisyAnne

I could take offence about you not having read my previous posts at this point Normandygirl.

He will have known exactly what backlash (give or take a bit) there would be. There are a couple of reasons why he did it. They are not "good" reasons, but they are excellent political reasons, and all parties indulge in those and have to bear with looking stupid for a while.

The first was the need to get elected. To do this he needed to not have an election and it not to go to the members. The ERG Three will have promised not only their own votes but those of their 'fellow travellers'. Otherwise they would have voted with whoever was nearest to 100 votes and driven it to and election.

The second is that she is actually providing and amazing smoke screen. I bet he is greatful to be able to get on with the work he needs to do. While you (and the press) are attacking her they are attacking him less.

I don't think it is as bad as Johnson and Truss as I (personally) wonder about Johnson's mental health or mental condition and Truss's ability. It's a very small step in the way forward but it could be one we have to go through.

Daisyanne. Sorry,I skipped all the nonsense about Albanian gangs and unfortunately missed your post
I have to disagree about Braverman being a "smokescreen" though, as we have the emerging story of Adam Smith and Hunt rearing it head again. That's the two most senior cabinet ministers appointments being questioned now, and with it Sunak's judgement. When the press and public get their teeth into a perceived wrongdoing of any minister, the PM's response to it comes under extreme criticism and scrutiny, rendering them unable to "get on with the work they need to do"
Many PM's have been brought down by the misdemeanours of their chosen ministers. It remains to be seen if Sunak words of "integrity and responsibility" were empty rhetoric or not.

Her security breaches were multiple and serious.

This government must hold her to account.

If this isn’t sorted, how on earth can we as voters trust or respect anything they do?

MayBee70
Climate change is just as big a cause of migration as wars are.

Whitewavemark2

Her security breaches were multiple and serious.

This government must hold her to account.

If this isn’t sorted, how on earth can we as voters trust or respect anything they do?

Has there been a verified account of Ms. Braverman’s breach’s of security, other than what was in her resignation letter.

Or is it all he said/she said?

GrannyGravy13

volver I do not give a flying fig if it’s a teenager or a burly man with a beard I personally do not want to find them in or on my property.

Regardless of their ethnicity or country of origin it is a fact that some of the immigrants are of the criminal fraternity.

What we need is an effective screening process, if they are a badden then straight home.

(Totally off course but there is a case in Liverpool, just made public by the courts/police were an Afghan immigrant claiming to be 16 raped a female, it has been proven that he is in fact 21, so the full force of the law can be used)

My point is GG13, that the language we usen about anybody gives us an image of them. The way that the intrusion was described in your original post would make a reader think certain things about him, which weren't true. And that contributes to the perception of "immigrants"
Some immigrants are of the criminal fraternity. So are some British people who were born here and have lived here for decades.

What we need is an effective screening process, if they are a badden then straight home.

Yes, yes, a thousand times, yes. If only we had a Home Secretary and Government who would make that happen instead of wittering on about Rwanda flights.

The Braverman issue is highlighting the division in the Tory party. Unity didn’t last long did it?

volver I am definitely not in favour of flying people to Rwanda.

I do think that the media focusing on how much immigrants cost per day and how this money could be better used on our own people has focused some sections of the U.K. firmly against the boat people

The constant vox pops seem in favour of a firm Home Secretary.

I am in favour of a firm but fair Home Secretary who can lay her plan before parliament. (no idea what Ms, Braverman’s plan is other than Rwanda, have I missed it?)

For those defending Braverman, I would just ask what people think should happen if a civil servant did the same thing?

Would an apology and promise to do better next time do it?

Whitewavemark2

For those defending Braverman, I would just ask what people think should happen if a civil servant did the same thing?

Would an apology and promise to do better next time do it?

I hope you do not think I am defending Ms. Braverman? I would just like to know the facts, not here say.

I am on Granny duty all this week and only popping in and out of news/current affairs in between CBeeBees, UTube and Halloween films, (teenagers overnight who are still asleep upstairs hence I am trying to catch up)