Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

Illiteracy haven't done anything to you doodledog

I even tried to extend olive branches

We both know that

How awful, but totally unavoidable. I don't understand though. I would have thought if a female person was designated male in their medical notes they would first have had to have had a hysterectomy and mastectomy with bottom surgery too?

No, OAU, there is no requirement for anything at all to have happened. Self-ID means that a man simply has to say he is a woman and lo! Anyone disputing that is transphobic and discriminatory etc.

I don't know about this case - was this person in possession of cognitive faculties, enough to know about the pregnancy and let the hospital know? If so, surely there has to be some responsibility for patients to disclose these things. If an overweight man signs in as male, why would a triage nurse even consider pregnancy? On another thread people are arguing about boys being asked if they might be pregnant before getting X rays. It is bonkers, but I suppose it would avoid this sort of thing. I was asked if I might be pregnant when I had my first Covid jab. I was 62, and gorgeous though I am, I doubt I could be mistaken for childbearing age. The nurse doing the jab said with a sigh that these days they have to cover themselves for every eventuality or risk being sued.

Ok no I'll reword that. A friend who lives as a man but was born female told me that the drugs they take do have an increased risk of womb cancers. My friend was so scared of the risk and so disturbed by their period which still came every month- despite taking huge amounts of Testosterone and other medications. My friend was told to have a hysterectomy to make it go away, but couldn't bear to lose fertility. Wanted to have a child, yet didn't want to be pregnant. It was a real dilemma. They said if they ever became pregnant, they would stop taking the male hormones and nurture the pregnancy. To not have known or realised, would have been devastating.

Trans people do suffer so much. I don't know if they are all at similar risks because of the medications they take, but I do know that for medical purposes it should be obvious in case of emergency. What if they are unconscious and cannot advocate for themselves? I'm sorry if it offends anyone, but it could save a life for the biological sex to be on the medical notes. What if a Transman had an Ectopic Pregnancy? (Hard to spot even in a woman living as a woman)

VioletSky

Illiteracy haven't done anything to you doodledog

I even tried to extend olive branches

We both know that

Illiteracy?

Olive branch? You PM'd me once. I don't think it would do you any favours to go into the detail, but go ahead if you want to.

I am not saying you have done anything to me, but nor have I done anything to you. This exchange is rather embarrassing, really.

We disagree about trans issues. I do try to be polite and respectful of others' opinions, including yours, even when we disagree, but when people twist my words and get nasty with me, I will fight back - I'm only human.

I'm honestly flabbergasted lol

But I shouldn't be

OAU I agree with you. I am not in favour of records being altered retrospectively for a number of reasons, and the ones you cite are among them.

Your friend sounds very troubled. To want to be a man, but also want to bear a child, while not wanting to be pregnant is a real mess, isn't it? It seems (to me) contradictory, as the ability to bear children is the ultimate female attribute, so wanting to keep that but also be a man doesn't compute for me. Did your friend say what it was about being a man that she wanted? None of my business, I know, but it's interesting.

Every time this thread updates I think it will be VS providing a link to the studies she has read. And every time I'm disappointed. Do you intend to share the studies or not VS? It seems so odd to mention them but then to keep them secret.

I think it's probably sensible to keep the trans distinction so that people can access the right help, support and medical treatment

I'm not sure how trans people feel about that and it's probably their choice not mine

Yes, and I probably would be too if I was taking male hormones while still having periods! This is a real person with a real dilemma and real issues. At age 4o I experienced the biological clock ticking and desperately wanted another child (my husband didn't) and for a time I felt quite disrupted by that longing, so I for one know how powerful our female hormones can be. Add to those, doses of testosterone and other medications and you probably have a battle going on, mentally and physically, literally a torment.

I think my friend is very honest about their struggles and if it were possible to live an easier life, I'm sure they would choose to. They live as a man because that's how they identify- and because the NHS provided drugs to make it impossible to tell any different.

What is the trans distinction?

OAU, I'm sorry if I came across as anything but sympathetic to your friend. I can absolutely see that it must have been (still is?) a very hard time. I was only asking as the baby thing makes no sense to me, but I wasn't suggesting that it needs to make sense to me - it's not my life. I hope your friend is ok now.

Rosie51

Every time this thread updates I think it will be VS providing a link to the studies she has read. And every time I'm disappointed. Do you intend to share the studies or not VS? It seems so odd to mention them but then to keep them secret.

I have already said

The link I posted will tell you the relevant studies and a brief summary of their findings. Some studies are accessible and some have articles about them

Or you could join an intersectional feminist group where there are women with full access and the education to explain it all to you

Intersectional feminists are lovely people

My friend is happily married to a woman and living their best life, childless and regretful about that, but otherwise happy.

I don't understand everything. But the story about the man losing his baby made me so sad because it could have been avoided if the facts were on the notes or if the man had received adequate biological knowledge of the female reproductive system to understand the mechanics of conception, pregnancy, labour and birth.

I would have thought if a female person was designated male in their medical notes they would first have had to have had a hysterectomy and mastectomy with bottom surgery too?

No, clearly not.
That was in USA and I believe the situation in the UK is the same - the sex signifier on a patient's record will be changed on request.

Even if surgery had been done, that doesn't make the person male. It makes them a female who has had surgery.

I'm sorry if it offends anyone, but it could save a life for the biological sex to be on the medical notes.

Exactly.

The whole situation of pretending that people can be the opposite sex, or no sex at all, is completely ridiculous.

Yes of course there are detrimental effects from taking opposite sex hormones. I don't know how well these are explained to people or whether they take it in, in their longing to 'change sex'.

Well I know that you can't change a person's Chromosomes or skeleton to another gender.

I once knew a man who was really screwed up because he looked like a man to me and had been born male, but during some health problems he had been xrayed and told he had a female skeleton. His Chromosomes were male, so he was reassured but shaken. Maybe it's not always clear cut as we would hope.

It's called common decency and respect not to walk up to a trans person or a friend or relative and say "you can't change sex and you are actually a man\woman"

They have gender dysphoria they absolutely have far greater understanding than you claim for yourself

Decency and respect is not a GC trait

VioletSky

Rosie51

Every time this thread updates I think it will be VS providing a link to the studies she has read. And every time I'm disappointed. Do you intend to share the studies or not VS? It seems so odd to mention them but then to keep them secret.

I have already said

The link I posted will tell you the relevant studies and a brief summary of their findings. Some studies are accessible and some have articles about them

Or you could join an intersectional feminist group where there are women with full access and the education to explain it all to you

Intersectional feminists are lovely people

Oh is that the link to the Wikipedia summary? I thought you had read actual scientific studies. The Wicki page only summarises. My mistake I read your comment I've read many of the actual studies as meaning you'd actually read the studies, not just a summary on Wicki. I'll pass on joining any groups thanks, I don't suppose you'd be receptive to being told to join a group whose initial premise is that transwomen are most definitely male sex. Such a shame, I thought we were going to be directed to actual studies not pseudo-scientific, not peer reviewed musings.

VioletSky

It's called common decency and respect not to walk up to a trans person or a friend or relative and say "you can't change sex and you are actually a man\woman"

They have gender dysphoria they absolutely have far greater understanding than you claim for yourself

Decency and respect is not a GC trait

Who has done that? Anyone on GN, or is it in your head?

VioletSky

It's called common decency and respect not to walk up to a trans person or a friend or relative and say "you can't change sex and you are actually a man\woman"

They have gender dysphoria they absolutely have far greater understanding than you claim for yourself

Decency and respect is not a GC trait

Evidence of anybody doing that VS or just more of your made up rubbish? Decency and respect for women is not a TRA trait. See, we can all adopt that approach. I've been respectful, honest, kind in all my posts and the TRAs on this thread have been vile and victimised me. Recognise yourself? Or do you think I've strayed into fantasy?

I agree that it would be appalling behaviour to tell anyone that they can't be who they are @Violetsky

Deep down I have concerns and misgivings, but I would keep them to myself out of respect. Gender Dysphoria is not something I'd wish on anyone, but it definitely needs to be in the medical notes so that Dr's can approach sensitively.

No I said I'd read them through the group where they have been shared.

I'm really trying here

OnwardandUpward

I agree that it would be appalling behaviour to tell anyone that they can't be who they are @Violetsky

Deep down I have concerns and misgivings, but I would keep them to myself out of respect. Gender Dysphoria is not something I'd wish on anyone, but it definitely needs to be in the medical notes so that Dr's can approach sensitively.

I follow a lovely butch lesbian on twitter who suffers dreadful body dysphoria even though she is married to a very feminine lesbian and they have a family. Periods are a nightmare to her, and a real struggle, but despite the TRAs constantly telling her she should transition to male, she is content with her female sex, if not with its bodily functions.

VioletSky

No I said I'd read them through the group where they have been shared.

I'm really trying here

No I don't think you did make clear you'd read them through a group. Is it impossible for you to provide a link so us mere mortals may also read these scientific studies? The cynical may begin to wonder if they actually exist, or whether you've been duped by the group.

.....

If it makes you feel better to think that Rosie

OnwardandUpward

I agree that it would be appalling behaviour to tell anyone that they can't be who they are @Violetsky

Deep down I have concerns and misgivings, but I would keep them to myself out of respect. Gender Dysphoria is not something I'd wish on anyone, but it definitely needs to be in the medical notes so that Dr's can approach sensitively.

There are a lot of concerns shared by intersectional feminists which includes trans people

We will obviously find solutions that promote equality and resect

And luckily there is quite a few of us

because I've been told by GC feminists several times that they don't feel its up to them to find solutions... they just enjoy a moan lol