Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

OnwardandUpward

FarNorth

A situation where a baby died, in part because a female person was designated 'male' in her medical notes.

metro.co.uk/2019/05/20/pregnant-transgender-mans-baby-died-because-nurse-didnt-realize-he-was-in-labor-9613972/

How awful, but totally unavoidable. I don't understand though. I would have thought if a female person was designated male in their medical notes they would first have had to have had a hysterectomy and mastectomy with bottom surgery too?

I would also have thought that in many cases it must be necessary to take hormones to live as a gender you weren't biologically born as? If so, I would have thought they would also carry risks and should be obvious on the patients medical notes.

It's so sad when it could have been avoided with honesty and transparency. Also, anyone living as a man but procreating with a man needs to have the facts of life explaining to them, so they understand what happens in labour. They could then advocate for themselves in a transparent way.

No one is saying they can't live as they choose, but there needs to be some honesty and transparency in the medical notes and some education .

Let's be very clear this case was a lack of proper care and attention of staff (possibly through ignorance, possibly prejudice). This man presented with pains. He told staff that he had done a pregnancy test so they knew there was a possibility. They did a pregnancy test (something presumably they don't usually do on men) so they knew there was a possibility. They ignored him because he was fat and trans. Could those of you attributing it to what was on his notes please stop doing so.
As the doctor investigating said
The man’s case was highlighted by Dr Daphna Stroumsa in the New England Journal of Medicine on Wednesday as an example of how gender assumptions can be detrimental in hospitals
That is assumptions by staff which caused the death of this baby.

'I am a very good TA'.
I immediately heard my mother's voice' 'Blessed is she who bloweth her own trumpet.'

I am devoutly thankful that I retired as a teacher and Senco before these trans issues apparently became part of the curriculum. I have grave concerns about who is teaching what to whom, and how.

A friend's granddaughter announced over a family tea recently that she was bi; when asked what she meant she said the 'teacher' (actually a TA) had told them that some people loved the opposite sex and that was fine and some people loved the same sex and that was fine too, and if they loved both sexes that meant they were bi, so she reasoned that as she loved her brothers and male cousins, but also her best girl friends, that made her bi. She is nine.

There was sadly a breakdown in communications and care which did result in the death of the baby in this case.
Problems will arise though when the sex marker on a patient's notes is changed with no indication of the natal sex. There are diseases that present differently in men and women, heart attacks being one. There has been a bit of noise recently that medical practices, medications etc have all been judged on the male response, when the female response can be quite different. Test results which would be fine in a male can be an indication of problems for a female. If there is no marker indicating the natal sex, then problems will arise, and some will have serious consequences. There needs to be a system which records both birth sex and the way the patient wants to be regarded.

Good grief eazybee did her parents contact the school?

No wonder there are children confused about their identity and sexuality. I can't imagine in what context a teacher or teaching assistant would think it appropriate to discuss bi with a 9 year old.

Smileless2012

Good grief eazybee did her parents contact the school?

No wonder there are children confused about their identity and sexuality. I can't imagine in what context a teacher or teaching assistant would think it appropriate to discuss bi with a 9 year old.

I remember when exactly those ideas were expressed about homosexuality.

And rightly so IMO if a child's feelings were being skewed by their teacher or teaching assistant.

Are you listening to yourselves?

It's OK to say you are good at something lol

I hope you all feel you are good at something in life

eazybee

'I am a very good TA'.
I immediately heard my mother's voice' 'Blessed is she who bloweth her own trumpet.'

I am devoutly thankful that I retired as a teacher and Senco before these trans issues apparently became part of the curriculum. I have grave concerns about who is teaching what to whom, and how.

A friend's granddaughter announced over a family tea recently that she was bi; when asked what she meant she said the 'teacher' (actually a TA) had told them that some people loved the opposite sex and that was fine and some people loved the same sex and that was fine too, and if they loved both sexes that meant they were bi, so she reasoned that as she loved her brothers and male cousins, but also her best girl friends, that made her bi. She is nine.

Oh for goodness sake

She isn't Bi because she misunderstood a concept

People have no choice over their sexuality

Young children are not harmed by having gay parents and some children do

Parents should explain the misunderstanding and move on with their day

VioletSky

Idk why you guys do this stuff

It's a weird hobby

VS, Who brought your job and your implied criticisms of others onto GN?
I thought it was you.

Why do you do this stuff VS?

Ah so if people mention they are a TA and not a scientist, that means discussing their job and how you believe they do it is OK?

That makes no sense at all

I think I am also entitled to a voice on gransnet and the methods used to shut down anyone who doesn't share GC views are pretty disgusting. As evidenced by this thread

I just don't let it ruin my day

She isn't Bi because she misunderstood a concept. We know that, her family knew that but she didn't know that did she. She accepted what she'd been told by her teaching assistant and believed at that moment that she was bi.

No one has said people have a choice over their sexuality and no one has said that children are harmed by having gay parents.

Parents should explain the misunderstanding and move on with their day agreed, and should contact the school to prevent this misinformed teaching assistant from confusing any other 9 year old.

I haven't seen any disgusting views from those who don't share GC views. I've seen some from those with GC views that I found unpleasant, and many that I disagree with, but wouldn't describe any of them as disgusting. Nothing that would arouse revulsion.

The child has not been harmed in any way by that misunderstanding

Please explain to me your problem with it

Or is this "Oh no! bisexual superman!" all over again?

In other news, this child is 9, sex education starts at 10.

Oh no!

The point VS is that no-one should have been talking to young children in that confusing way.

Exactly FarNorth and no parent should have to worry that it may be happening when they are at school, especially from a member of the teaching staff.

I've never met a 9 year old who didn't already know that people can choose who they love regardless of sex.

I've met some who had funny ideas about that from their parents

Galaxy

Its utterly inaccurate to say gender critical people havent found solutions, in many schools the materials from transgender trend are used, they were set up to challenge the narrative of young peoples bodies being wrong. There have been court cases to ensure that discussion took place on womens rights, the continuous support of the detransitioners, the support of women in prison and in refuges, the endless campaigning about sport by some brave athletes.

I didn’t say they haven’t found solutions, just that it is unreasonable to expect them to do so, and have the alternative presented as letting men and transwomen do as they wish until women find a solution that is acceptable to the men/transwomen.

So, I say I don’t want men in women’s spaces (and bear in mind that safe spaces for women are pretty thin on the ground). You say ‘so how will you police it?. I say ‘I won’t - I’m not a police officer. The comeback is then, ‘Oh! So you want a police officer on every door of every Ladies’ loo, do you? Do you want them to check genitals?’ A ridiculous scenario is presented, with the alternative to that scenario being that men continue to use the Ladies with no way of separating the ones who just want a wee from the ones on the prowl.

The next defence is to suggest that over time, public buildings will have three sets of loos, which in practice means that the urinals will stay, the Ladies (which tend to already cater for disabled people and children of both sexes) will be carved up further to accommodate ‘gender neutral’ facilities. Any concerns about the unfairness of that are batted back with sneers about not wanting ‘solutions’. No, it’s just that that solution solves very little for those who used to be women.

My point is that if men/transwomen want to use the Ladies’ they should find a solution, and find it before altering the status quo to suit themselves.

I don't think parent blaming is appropriate in this instance as it wasn't a parent who expressed a funny idea and confused this 9 year old.

They ignored him because he was fat and trans.

It’s a very sad and very strange case, but this is a bit of a leap. The finding that ‘gender assumptions can be detrimental in hospitals’ is not saying that at all. What is the basis for your arrival at that conclusion?

Smileless2012

I don't think parent blaming is appropriate in this instance as it wasn't a parent who expressed a funny idea and confused this 9 year old.

What is funny about saying people can love boys or girls or both?

So many children misunderrstand the concept of marriage and say they want ro marry a parent one day because they love them.

Do we blame the concept of marriage or do we just explain they have misunderstood and one day they will fall in love in a different way to how they love their parents

We also have gay teachers

Is it not OK for them to tell children aged 9 that they are marrying someone of the same sex?

Are we going backwards on those battles now?

There's nothing funny about it VS. It's a fact isn't it but it also a fact that loving both boys and girls doesn't mean you are or are likely to be bi.

What does having gay teachers have to do with a 9 year old following a conversation with a teachers assistant, announcing to her family that she's bi because of what the ta said?