Petition : *Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex*

I have no idea of a better way to explain this to you

Children express many things. “When I grow up I’m going to be my mum” or “be my dad.”
“When I grow up I’m going to marry you because you’re beautiful!”
I heard it on Wednesday. 🤣🤣
I don’t think that needs explaining at all when children are young enough to make those comments.
Unless it’s something dangerous, and that isn’t, I would see explaining as telling them they’re wrong, rather than letting them grow into understanding.

Having read through my post upthread, I can see that it reads as though I think Galaxy would respond like that, which was not, of course, my intention. It is how the 'trans allies' would respond. Sorry, Galaxy if you were taken aback .

Smileless2012

And rightly so IMO if a child's feelings were being skewed by their teacher or teaching assistant.

OK here's reality.
Talking about gay people will not make a child gay
Talking about bi people will not make a child bi.
Talking about heterosexual people will not make a gay or bi child heterosexual.
I wonder why didn't the child's family explain to her that she had misunderstood a bit? Are they afraid to discuss sex with her? Is that one reason she misunderstood. That isn't the TA's fault. Another child more informed may have asked a question which the TA answered. You have no idea of the context of this conversation.

I'm hoping more agree with you glorianny

Yes Glorianny
OK here's reality.
You have no idea of the context of this conversation. I couldn’t have put it better.

I am not suggesting that talking about gay or bi people will make someone bi or gay Glorianny. If you think I have perhaps you could provide an example.

You're right, I have no idea of the context of this particular conversation and neither do you, but if this was the result of a more informed child asking a question, then the TA should have been clear. They obviously weren't clearly so yes, it is their fault.

Doodledog

*They ignored him because he was fat and trans.*

It’s a very sad and very strange case, but this is a bit of a leap. The finding that ‘gender assumptions can be detrimental in hospitals’ is not saying that at all. What is the basis for your arrival at that conclusion?

From the article
When the 32-year-old man arrived at the hospital with severe abdominal pains, a nurse did not consider it an emergency, noting the man was obese
They administered a pregnancy test so they didn't think he was male they knew he was trans. They thought he was fat.

As in example, I've explained to children many times that girls can do anything when boy has told me girls can't do xyz.

But the belief that girls can't do xyz is not protected under the equality act. Neither is the belief that boys can't marry boys or girls can't marry girls. They legally can and if a child tells me they can't, of course I would be allowed to say that's not true

Glorianny

Smileless2012

And rightly so IMO if a child's feelings were being skewed by their teacher or teaching assistant.

OK here's reality.
Talking about gay people will not make a child gay
Talking about bi people will not make a child bi.
Talking about heterosexual people will not make a gay or bi child heterosexual.
I wonder why didn't the child's family explain to her that she had misunderstood a bit? Are they afraid to discuss sex with her? Is that one reason she misunderstood. That isn't the TA's fault. Another child more informed may have asked a question which the TA answered. You have no idea of the context of this conversation.

I agree with most of that except the bit about the TA.

Leaving a child confused about a concept is never good educational practice.

A good educationalist, having explained a concept, will always check back to make sure it has been understood. Usually by asking for it to be explained back to them.

So yes it was the TAs “fault” or “failing” is preferable. A failing in good practice.

Smileless2012

I am not suggesting that talking about gay or bi people will make someone bi or gay Glorianny. If you think I have perhaps you could provide an example.

You're right, I have no idea of the context of this particular conversation and neither do you, but if this was the result of a more informed child asking a question, then the TA should have been clear. They obviously weren't clearly so yes, it is their fault.

So please could you explain what "a child's feelings being skewed means" I'm afraid I don't understand.
Are you saying you would have preferred it if the TA had said "some people have sex with.."?

Yes, you've put that very well Lathyrus and the post that first referred to this didn't say her family hadn't explained she'd misunderstood. It also made it quite clear where her confusion came from; it came from the TA.

Not knowing the context of the conversation it's difficult to know how the subject could have been addressed in a clearer way.

The child thinking that loving male and female relatives meant she was bi is what I mean by "a child's feelings being skewed".

1. We don't teach about LGBTQ in primary school. Sometimes they simply ask questions or we hear then talking amongst themselves

2. Children often do not understand a concept straight away. We differentiate the learning too, because we need to find the best way for an individual child.

This was a misunderstanding and it has caused absolutely no harm at all

We also send home homework, parents also have responsibility here

My child cane hone and said that

I'd have a chuckle and explain that it's a different type of love, that's all.

I certainly wouldn't be telling anyone this was a terrible TA or complaining in any way

That's awful

Smileless2012

Not knowing the context of the conversation it's difficult to know how the subject could have been addressed in a clearer way.

The child thinking that loving male and female relatives meant she was bi is what I mean by "a child's feelings being skewed".

Yes, you do need to know if the child initiated it by asking about “bi” or something else connected to the conversation.

One of the problems in the answer is the ambiguous use of the word “love”. I don’t think it was a good explanation at all. I’m surprised anyone with experience with children thinks it was.

What does a parents' responsibility for homework have to do with it?

I accept that children don't always understand a concept straight away as a parent and from when I was a TA, which is why it's important as Lathyrus has posted to ensure that a child has understood. The child in question clearly hadn't understood had she, so a good thing that she felt comfortable enough with her family to say what she did.

Has anyone said this TA is terrible?

Indeed Lathyrus the ambiguous use of the word love can certainly create problems.

Would you describe yourself as a good TA then smileless?

No harmless misunderstandings under your watch!

Lol I can't with this thread anymore

Well I never had any complaints, only positive feedback so I'll let that speak for itself VS.

That's made my day

Glad to hear it.

I think the point being made was that we are being told that schools don't teach anything about 'gender' or sexual orientation at primary level, but then it seems that something about bisexuality was mentioned to a nine year old.

I am not saying that these things shouldn't be discussed with children. My own were brought up knowing that friends (of ours) were gay, and it was just another boring thing amongst all the other boring things to do with parents and their friends. Whatever was said at school could easily have been countered by us if we didn't agree.

But (and this goes a lot wider than the scope of this thread) I do have a deep unease about the way some school staff see their role as compensating for things that in their opinion are lacking in children's home lives. I understand that basics like making sure they have eaten, and that violence is not the way to solve things have, regrettably, become things that primary schools now have to deal with; but the main role of a school should (IMO) be to teach the children the subjects they are there to learn. Of course life isn't as easily compartmentalised as that, and there will always have to be judgement calls; but when I hear school staff talking about 'parents' inadequacies' and how they have to make up for them I am unhappy about it.

We all know that not all parents do things the way that we would, but that shouldn't mean that others should set themselves up as arbiters of what is acceptable and what isn't, outside of obvious boundaries.

Sorry, that's a bit off-topic, but it ties in with the lecture from Glorianny stating the obvious about sexuality not being linked to discussion. OTOH, if it is the case that unless something has been scientifically proven beyond all doubt then it shouldn't be assumed. Last I heard, the jury was out about that 'causes' homosexuality, so who knows, eh?

Glorianny

Doodledog

They ignored him because he was fat and trans.

It’s a very sad and very strange case, but this is a bit of a leap. The finding that ‘gender assumptions can be detrimental in hospitals’ is not saying that at all. What is the basis for your arrival at that conclusion?

From the article
When the 32-year-old man arrived at the hospital with severe abdominal pains, a nurse did not consider it an emergency, noting the man was obese
They administered a pregnancy test so they didn't think he was male they knew he was trans. They thought he was fat.

That's not what you were saying before though. 'They ignored him because he was fat and trans' suggests that he didn't get treatment, but in fact he was tested for pregnancy exactly because he said he was trans.

It is a dreadful case, but are you suggesting that anyone of either sex who is of childbearing age should be tested for pregnancy in a busy A&E ward? Scrap that - anyone of any age. I was asked about the possibility of pregnancy when I got my Covid jab. Maybe they thought I could be a surrogate or something?

As I said upthread, there is another discussion going on about boys being asked if they are pregnant on another thread. It seems that hospitals are making an effort. At what point does personal responsibility come in, though?

Pans have the right to withdraw their child from any part of sex education in schools, except that which is directly part of the science curriculum.

Teachers or TAs or anyone employed by the school should not discuss sexual matters with a child unless they have discussed this with the parents and obtained their permission. They should never initiate a casual discussion.

The correct response if a child raises a question related to sexual matters is that they should ask their parents. Except in issues of safeguarding. Even that should not be followed up immediately but should be referred on to the person responsible for such issues.

Every member of staff should be aware of this and have had training and guidance. The school will have a policy that covers these legal requirements and it should be followed by all members of staff.

The parents should discuss this with the Head Teacher. These are serious requirements that are in place to protect children and the adults who work with them from accusations.

At the very least it shows a disturbing contempt for the rights and responsibilities of parents. At worst it raises questions about the adults agendas.