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What would you like to see in the budget.

(233 Posts)
DaisyAnne Sat 12-Nov-22 15:46:39

I'm surprised to find I am a little scared about what he will come up with. So many people worried about what is to come.

I think the only area I would have a fairly firm view about is the NHS. NI was not set up to pay for it. National Insurance was just that and it pays, like any insurance, for a specific area, to cover working life issues and provide an end of work pension - that's why you stop paying at the end of your working life.

For the NHS I would rather they kept it as a separate tax - MI perhaps. Medical insurance would then be paid as a percentage of income right through your life.

I'm sure there are arguments against this but other than that everything else may have me cowering behind the sofa on Thursday.

kittylester Sat 12-Nov-22 15:56:44

I think that the NHS needs a major re think in lots of ways.

It would be good to see it removed from Government control and run on a cross-party basis and rethought before deciding to just through more money at it.

Blossoming Sat 12-Nov-22 16:44:56

A commitment to improved funding for health and social care.

Oldnproud Sat 12-Nov-22 16:54:39

I would like to see MP's expenses reduced and perks removed - absolutely no more subsidised bars or restaurants for them. Until they give up these benefits, they are in no moral position to impose cuts on the rest of us.

No, I know such things would never be in the budget anyway, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be!

varian Sat 12-Nov-22 17:12:04

Proper windfall tax on the energy producers, tax the international companies like Amazon on the basis of the revenues raised in the UK, cancel the tax loophole of "non dom status", increase the top rate of income tax to 50%, raise tax thresholds for low and middle income earners.

Pursue furlough fraud and crooked covid contracts, Invest in insulating homes, building more social housing, training more doctors and nurses, repairing school buildings and making the most of renewable energy resources.

Whitewavemark2 Sat 12-Nov-22 19:31:56

Definitely not measures for austerity - neither necessary nor sensible.

Jaxjacky Sat 12-Nov-22 20:16:01

Lower business rates for nursery provision, equate the energy prices for those on prepay meters to market rate.

MaizieD Sat 12-Nov-22 22:10:58

I'd like to see investment in the NHS and all the public services that have been kept short of money by the tories over the past 12 years. We need to spend or way out of recession (Keynes) , not make people and services even more poor.

And dropping of this ridiculous notion of there being a 'hole' in the nation's economy. It's just accounting fiction.

progressiveeconomyforum.com/publications/the-dangerous-fiction-of-the-fiscal-black-hole/

Won't happen, of course...

Eloethan Sat 12-Nov-22 22:22:14

I would like to see the annual payments made to ex prime ministers either significantly reduced or removed after a period of 3 years. I would like to see the allowances given for attendances at the House of Lords to be reduced and for removal of the subsidies for food and drink in the Houses of Parliament.

I would like to see a firm commitment to the abolition of off-shore tax havens (which I believe was agreed to but which has not materialised)..

I would like to see the top income tax level increased for people earning over £150,000 p.a., a review of the various loopholes that exist in our tax sytem which are supposed to encourage investment and entrepreneurship but which often provide neither.

MaizieD Sat 12-Nov-22 22:25:24

This guy knows what he's talking about:

twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1591203593335738368

DaisyAnne Sun 13-Nov-22 08:41:55

He does Maizie. But then he is an economist and not an accountant. Sometimes I feel the treasury is full of accountants for whom balancing the books day to day is their life's work.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 13-Nov-22 08:53:59

It almost certainly won’t be listened to by Sunak, but the message is definitely spreading, and people are beginning to understand how a recession should be dealt with in order to encourage growth.

The Tories myth of “black holes” etc will be recognised as just that - a myth.

The choice is entirely political, although why they wish to deepen the recession is beyond me.

Cameron’s austerity achieved absolutely nothing except underfunding of our public services which has resulted in their rundown, leaving us now with a colossal bill and crappy services.

MerylStreep Sun 13-Nov-22 08:58:17

Here’s another good piece.

morningporridge.com/blog/blains-morning-porridge/the-uk-out-the-unfunded-spending-fire-and-into-the-austerity-frying-pan/

Riverwalk Sun 13-Nov-22 09:21:21

Gawd, it's depressing watching Hunt being interviewed.

MaizieD Sun 13-Nov-22 11:34:33

MerylStreep

Here’s another good piece.

morningporridge.com/blog/blains-morning-porridge/the-uk-out-the-unfunded-spending-fire-and-into-the-austerity-frying-pan/

Thanks for that link, MerylStreep. A good article.

This is, I think, a key paragraph:

Blyth goes on to show how Austerity doesn’t work, it increases inequality, and that it can’t work in a competitive global economy where prices and currencies are volatile. He asks: Is everybody supposed to run current account surpluses? If so, with whom—Martians? And if everybody does indeed try to run a savings surplus, what else can be the outcome but a permanent global depression?

This long, but worth a read, article provides a detailed explanation of that statement:

fromtone.com/why-running-a-budget-surplus-is-a-bad-idea/

The author starts with this analogy:
To understand how something like savings can be so different at the level of an entire economy compared to a single household consider this imaginary scenario. You want to save up some money and so you decide to reduce your spending for several months and stuff the money under your mattress. As your stash of saved money gets bigger you get wealthier. That may make a lot of sense at an individual level but consider what happens if everybody were to do this at once. Everybody simultaneously decides to stop spending a big chunk of their income and instead saves it by stuffing it under their mattress. Suddenly because people everywhere are spending less and saving more the sales of goods across the entire economy drops. As a result businesses start to contract or go bust. This means workers are sacked, causing their spending to drop, causing more businesses to go bust. The economy starts to get smaller. As you can see at the level of the entire economy increasing savings can actually cause a lot of problems. Too much savings can reduce economic activity and reduce wealth.

Then extrapolates it to 'what if countries all did the same?'

So why cannot everybody be like Germany and run a trade surplus and run a budget surplus? The problems is that not everyone can run a trade surplus at the same time because every trade surplus has to be matched by a matching deficit somewhere in the global economy. And deficit countries are not just importing another countries exports but they are also importing unemployment as their domestic demand is used to buy goods from abroad instead of keeping its own workers employed.

While this is covering the topic of countries running budget surpluses it applies to a great extent to countries 'balancing the books^ (which is the story that the government will be feeding us, we have to 'balance the books'). Balancing the books will just cause stagnation in the economy because it will inhibit both the public and private investment needed to 'grow' the economy.

It would also seem to me that the more that cutting spending slows growth, and leads to failed businesses and unemployment, the worse our GDP will be and the bigger the deficit figure, as a percentage of GDP, will become. Which is not the stated aim of 'austerity! Austerity falsely promises quite the opposite...

Grantanow Sun 13-Nov-22 12:01:47

I would like Labour and the Tories to commit to rejoining the EU and the single market. Hunt admits Brexit imposes costs so why not change that?

Bea65 Sun 13-Nov-22 12:08:53

Riverwalk my sentiment too...had to switch over ..and don't know why but his face annoys me and of course, what comes out of his mouth!

Dinahmo Sun 13-Nov-22 13:49:37

Back in 2010 in the run up to the GE the Tories were banging on about the National Debt and telling people that their children and grandchildren would be paying for it in later years. Prior to that I don't recall the Debt being a GE topic.

At the same time journalists, economists and academics were pointing out that other countries had higher debt ratios than the UK. These were:

UK 69%
France 70%
US 78%
Italy 112%
Japan 166%

Germany, of course, had a lower percentage at 52%

This is a little off topic but still relevant because many people are still scared by it and I don't think that they need to be. Given the large deficit after the war, can anyone actually remember being aware that large sums were being repaid? Unless you held War stocks that is.

Doodledog Sun 13-Nov-22 13:56:43

Grantanow

I would like Labour and the Tories to commit to rejoining the EU and the single market. Hunt admits Brexit imposes costs so why not change that?

I would like to see that happen too.

Realistically though, I would also like to see a commitment to the NHS, backed up with a recognition that older people can't be expected to start paying medical insurance now, after a lifetime of paying NI and tax. Similarly, as older people are far less likely to be able to supplement their pensions with earned income, I would like to see a firm commitment to keeping the state pension. The constant politicising of it, and using it to set generations against one another is wearing. I don't even have my pension yet and I feel like a pawn.

I like the idea of a separately-funded NHS, but I guess that is as unlikely as rejoining the EU, as it would leave fewer opportunities for unscrupulous money making.

Norah Sun 13-Nov-22 14:00:30

Dinahmo, Given the large deficit after the war, can anyone actually remember being aware that large sums were being repaid? Unless you held War stocks that is.

Yes I remember. It wasn't until quite recently that the debt of lend lease was cleared (2006?). I thought, perhaps wrongly, it was too large a burden and was very hard on the country and economy. However, I suppose, that was mostly from lessons in school and attitude of my parents.

growstuff Sun 13-Nov-22 14:04:04

Norah

Dinahmo, Given the large deficit after the war, can anyone actually remember being aware that large sums were being repaid? Unless you held War stocks that is.

Yes I remember. It wasn't until quite recently that the debt of lend lease was cleared (2006?). I thought, perhaps wrongly, it was too large a burden and was very hard on the country and economy. However, I suppose, that was mostly from lessons in school and attitude of my parents.

But do you know how much the country was paying? Were you personally aware of the payments and how much your contribution was?

Incidentally, a deficit and debt aren't the same things.

growstuff Sun 13-Nov-22 14:07:46

And how do you think the Allies would have won WW2, if the US hadn't supplied equipment? Did you expect them to provide it for free?

Poppyred Sun 13-Nov-22 14:15:11

I’m thick sorry. Who do we and all the other countries owe the money too??

hulahoop Sun 13-Nov-22 14:15:45

would like to see the annual payments made to ex prime ministers either significantly reduced or removed after a period of 3 years. I would like to see the allowances given for attendances at the House of Lords to be reduced ,also perks in the house for meals and drinks they earn enough.

Norah Sun 13-Nov-22 14:19:02

growstuff But do you know how much the country was paying? Were you personally aware of the payments and how much your contribution was?

Yes and no.

I knew payments, at the time, it wasn't secret. It was a burden.

I have no idea to cost per person.