Let's turn the clock back to 1948

Both my children learned to cook at school Monica, one is now thirties, the other twenties - and the current pupils at their schools still learn up to year 9, with the option to do GCSE (or whatever it’s called now). They are both more interested, and better, cooks than I am. I don’t know if this is unusual, I’m in Wales.

Casdon

Both my children learned to cook at school Monica, one is now thirties, the other twenties - and the current pupils at their schools still learn up to year 9, with the option to do GCSE (or whatever it’s called now). They are both more interested, and better, cooks than I am. I don’t know if this is unusual, I’m in Wales.

Mine all had Home Economics lessons at school. They can all cook.

I didn't have any cookery lessons (or Domestic Science as it was called then) at school 60+ years ago.

I didn't have any cookery lessons in secondary school either (1966-1973) and I'm an adequate cook and have a pretty good idea about nutrition. My children had a handful of lessons in the first year of secondary school and can both cook, especially my son, who is far more adventurous than I am.

I wouldn't wast school curriculum time on cooking.

growstuff

I wouldn't wast school curriculum time on cooking.

If ready meals and takeaways are a child's normal fare how are they going to learn anything about basic nutrition, food preparation and storage, except at school?
Some of us learned from our mothers (or maybe even fathers). I had an older sister who trained as a domestic science teacher and passed on some knowledge to me and I also did a catering course, which included a food hygiene certificate. I think I was lucky. Not everyone had our advantages. How could they pass on anything to their children? It seems to me that a decent domestic science course at school, for both sexes, might be their only opportunity to learn.

I don't think that some basic instruction is a waste of school time, any more than is art, sport and music...or even 'citizenship'. Surely education should teach skills for life, not just for a job.

I think you are a tad optimistic about what children actually take away from lessons in school and retain for when such skills might come in handy.

How about they learn to read cookery books and the umpteen websites which provide hints about budget cooking? It's not rocket science.

PS. I don't think schools should provide just skills for a job either.

PPS. I learnt how to cook revolting and stodgy food from mother.

growstuff

I think you are a tad optimistic about what children actually take away from lessons in school and retain for when such skills might come in handy.

How about they learn to read cookery books and the umpteen websites which provide hints about budget cooking? It's not rocket science.

I think you're equally optimistic to think that all children are autodidacts...

Or that they will learn to read...

Even back in the 19th century basic domestic skills formed a key part of the school curriculum. Yes , they were sex based. Girls learnt cookery needlework and the essence of laundry and cleaning. Most girls left school to work in domestic service and they had the skills for that - and for running their own home later. Boys learnt woodwork and metal work, and their purpose was the same to help them get work when they left school and have the practical skills useful later in a home.

Being job ready has always been at the heart of formal education and it just shows how wealthy so many people are that they can disdain anything on the school curriculum that is aimed at helping children get jobs and start life ready and able to stand on their own two feet and support themselves.

Of course some children were badly taught or did not address themselves to learning. That will always apply. It does now, when these domestic skills are no longer on the curriculum.

My own and my family's experience is of how bad cookery education is. My first secondary school was excellent but after 2 terms we moved and in my next school it was poorly taught, mainly making cakes and biscuits to sell in the tuck shop and if you were in the academic stream stopped around 14.

By the time DD got to secondary school, it was now Home Economics and was as much desk and book learning as practical cooking. For DGC cooking is subsumed in to Craft, Design and Technology (CDT), where they do a term of cookery now and again.

It is the Design and Technology curriculum.
Here is the relevant Key Stage 3 statutory requirement.

 understand and apply the principles of nutrition and health
 cook a repertoire of predominantly savoury dishes so that they are able to feed
themselves and others a healthy and varied diet
 become competent in a range of cooking techniques [for example, selecting and preparing ingredients; using utensils and electrical equipment; applying heat in different ways; using awareness of taste, texture and smell to decide how to season dishes and combine ingredients; adapting and using their own recipes]
 understand the source, seasonality and characteristics of a broad range of ingredients.

For those who are interested the whole curriculum is here.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/239089/SECONDARY_national_curriculum_-_Design_and_technology.pdf

growstuff

I wouldn't wast school curriculum time on cooking.

It's not just cooking, though, as Mamie has pointed out.

It's learning about health and nutrition, applied science and a basis for future healthy eating.

It is the Design and Technology curriculum, more wide ranging than just cookery.
There is usually a choice after Y9 and it is not compulsory either.

Some children will learn from their parents, others may be brought up on a diet of chips and ketchup at home.

Cooking plays only a small part in healthy living.

For anybody who is interested, this is the statutory guidance for "Physical health and mental wellbeing (Primary and secondary)" (for England).

www.gov.uk/government/publications/relationships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-rse-and-health-education/physical-health-and-mental-wellbeing-primary-and-secondary

It covers a range of issues about physical health and mental wellbeing.

Nutrition is included in the science curriculum. Children do not need to know how to make gloopy cottage pie to understand the importance of the three macro ingredients plus vitamins and minerals and the overuse of sugar and salt.

"Healthy eating" is a theme included in many subjects - including foreign languages! In my experience, it's a cue for switching off for most pupils - they've had enough of it!

If the aim is to improve future health, there are many other issues involved.

Children do not need to know how to make gloopy cottage pie to understand the importance of the three macro ingredients plus vitamins and minerals and the overuse of sugar and salt.

If they don't know how to make it, growstuff, how are they going to avoid the excessive amounts of salt, sugar and fats that tend to be found in commercial manufactured dishes? The government is highly unlikely to regulate these. The only way to avoid them is to cook it yourself.

And as you yourself pointed out, not everyone's parent/s have great cooking skills to pass on.

I think that there is a problem with transference of learning from one subject to another. I've heard plenty of teachers tear their hair out over it! Will what is being taught about nutrition in science transfer to meal planning and preparation?

My son must have been one of the last generation to actually choose just cooking GCSE, tho he was academic/maths. He adored it and is now a super cook. I too loved it at school, my mum didnt have time to teach us but after school lessons I always cooked Sunday dinner. The glory of what I had - whole afternoons in the cookery room (yes only girls) and another sewing. Nutrition came with it as in balanced diet for both of us tho a lot more would be included now. Neither of us learnt how to deep fry - whether that was health, or health and safety, is another matter.

Do you honestly think that what a 14 year old learns at school about meal planning is remembered 10 (or more) years later, when young people start families and have to cook within a budget?

I am absolutely amazed that my family didn't starve, if school cookery lessons are so important! I have never had a cookery lesson in my life (nor had my ex husband). My mother was an appalling cook and I can't think of one thing I had to eat as a child which I still make.

I learnt to cook by following Delia Smith's original recipes in the Evening Standard, reading a couple of basic books and, later, by learning about my own diabetic needs by understanding nutrition.

I would far rather young people learnt about healthy living as a holistic theme, to include exercise as an enjoyable rather than competitive activity and understanding good mental health. IMO basic first aid would be more useful than cookery.

PS. I loathe cottage pie and any "stew" thickened with flour.

growstuff

PS. I loathe cottage pie and any "stew" thickened with flour.

My cottage pie is not gloopy.

That's why I dislike M&S and other readymade ones.

growstuff

Do you honestly think that what a 14 year old learns at school about meal planning is remembered 10 (or more) years later, when young people start families and have to cook within a budget?

I am absolutely amazed that my family didn't starve, if school cookery lessons are so important! I have never had a cookery lesson in my life (nor had my ex husband). My mother was an appalling cook and I can't think of one thing I had to eat as a child which I still make.

I learnt to cook by following Delia Smith's original recipes in the Evening Standard, reading a couple of basic books and, later, by learning about my own diabetic needs by understanding nutrition.

I would far rather young people learnt about healthy living as a holistic theme, to include exercise as an enjoyable rather than competitive activity and understanding good mental health. IMO basic first aid would be more useful than cookery.

Yours is one view though growstuff, not ‘the truth’, because there isn’t a right or wrong. For what it’s worth, yes I do think certain things stick in peoples heads from school, not necessarily the stuff you would expect either. They know they will be responsible for cooking and living healthily when they are older, and many take more notice for that reason - and they like the practical side too, with an end product the family (or the school bus) can eat.

Do you honestly think that what a 14 year old learns at school about meal planning is remembered 10 (or more) years later,

No, I don't, really, but you never know what gets dredged up from the memory years later. I certainly don't think they're going put together bits from various different lessons and have a eureka moment when it all comes together...

I do think that children should get the opportunity to learn to cook from scratch, for the reasons I've already stated.

P.S I rarely make cottage pie and it certainly wouldn't be 'gloopy'.

My cottage pie certainly wouldn't have flour in it! And the mash would be cauliflower....

Do you honestly think that what a 14 year old learns at school about meal planning is remembered 10 (or more) years later, when young people start families and have to cook within a budget?

It's not just cooking, though, is it.

When some children have no idea about food, nutrients, its provenance, even what is protein, fats or carbohydrates then is it not important to teach them if their parents don't teach them because they have no clue either?
It's not just about food either.

However, food is essential to life.
Is it less important than Art, History, RE, a foreign language?

Are you sure that children don't have that knowledge? My experience is with secondary children and most do.

I didn't have any home economics (cookery) lessons at secondary school and my children had about a dozen lessons throughout KS3. I can honestly say they learnt very little. They learnt more about nutrition from science. I've also covered home economics lessons in secondary schools and have seen something of what is taught.

This thread is about health and the NHS. We know that obesity is a huge public health issue, as "life style" conditions. We also know that there's a correlation between obesity, poor health and deprivation and certain geographic areas. Maybe we should be addressing why that is. I think it's naive to think that a few lessons in school will make any difference, especially when I've seen the kind of stuff that's cooked in schools.

We are awash with recipes and healthy eating advice, some of which is nonsense (but makes companies selling healthy eating supplements mega bucks). Teaching children how to make a couple of basic recipes isn't going to counteract that. It even seems that adults on GN have some strange ideas.

We know that obesity is beginning to level off. The most overweight/obese people are those in the 45-74 age group, so maybe they should be the target of healthy eating, exercise and wellbeing advice rather than young teenagers.