Let's turn the clock back to 1948

Before the NHS your health was defined by your level of wealth. Health insurance existed but it did nothing for the poorest, the unemployed and disabled.

People now live on average 11 more healthy years than before the NHS.

There is no question that a universal health care system is the best thing a country can provide for is citizens.

Pre 1948 anyone who could afford it had health insurance and many had it through their union, employer, or some Friendly Society My parents never mentioned ever paying for health insurance. My sister and I were born in 1943 and 1945 respectively and my DS broke her thigh in 1947 and I had my tonsils out.

The fact that people never mentioned that they had health insurance, doesn't mean they didn't have it

I survived gastroenteritis aged six months; I believe I was in hospital for six weeks. That was in 1946, and my parents never said anything about it costing. I know my mother paid for a private birth; she saved up in anticipation as she was still working for the Food Office. She stayed in hospital for a fortnight and returned to work six weeks later as nurseries were still operating.

GrannyRose15

Me: We need a totally new system of healthcare in this country and we need it NOW, not after more reports that get us nowhere.

You: Well, that’s one perspective from an extreme. The last sentence worries me, it’s the sort of thing Liz Truss would say. Perhaps we should ask her to get her magic wand out immediately.

Me: Would you prefer that any money available, magic or otherwise, to go on endless performance reviews that result in no change whatsoever?

A performance review is when as a manager you review successes and areas of improvement with a team member. Is that what you mean?

growstuff you have your opinion, I have mine. We will have to agree to differ.

Me: We need a totally new system of healthcare in this country and we need it NOW, not after more reports that get us nowhere.

You: Well, that’s one perspective from an extreme. The last sentence worries me, it’s the sort of thing Liz Truss would say. Perhaps we should ask her to get her magic wand out immediately.

Me: Would you prefer that any money available, magic or otherwise, to go on endless performance reviews that result in no change whatsoever?

MOnica The Biobank scientists aren't medics. I was diagnosed with a crushed vertebra years ago after an MRI scan. I saw a neuro-surgeon, who told me he had exactly the same thing and it was an "age" thing. I had some physio and it hasn't really troubled me since - I just have to make sure I keep my spine stretched.

It sounds as though there were failings by your DH's and daughter's GPs. I hope you've taken the matters up with the practices. My GP ignored my cancer symptoms, which delayed the start of treatment for six months, so I'm well aware that GPs make mistakes. However, individual failings don't mean that the whole NHS is failing at a system level. It's struggling because it's under extreme pressure.

I was given a DEXA scan automatically because I've started taking an oestrogen blocker, which is known to be a risk for osteoporosis.

I picked up a leaflet while I was waiting and was quite surprised by what I read, so I looked up why some people aren't offered them. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's a cost-cutting (efficiency ahem!) measure. The theory is that DEXA scans can't give a definite reason for loss of bone density and are quite difficult to interpret for some people with pre-existing conditions. The treatment is the same anyway, making the test irrelevant.

I'm due to have another one in two years and the results will be compared. If I've lost more bone density than expected, a decision will have to be made about continuing with the oestrogen blocker, so there's a definite reason for the test.

Since being diagnosed with osteopenia, I've had my Vitamin D and calcium levels checked and had a physio appointment, when I was given exercises to build up my muscles to try to improve my balance and strength, in order to prevent falls.

I’ve had extensive involvement with the nhs since April. It’s overstretched, underfunded / understaffed in terms of clinicians and we have had 11 years of Conservative government whose approach is to run it down. To drive people who can afford private consultations to stop trying to get them vis the nhs.
Things like Dexa scans have been rarer than hens teeth for ever. It’s another ‘efficiency’ measure that needs to go. My gp discovered some scheme for people with RA and had me referred about 10 years ago. Wouldn’t happen now

There were no leaflets about DEXA scans. I do not have osteoporosis. The DEXA scan was called for after Biobank scan showed I have a crushed vertibrae. I am dyspraxic with poor balance and I have bad falls at least once a year, and have had since childhood and this crush vertibrae apart (I know when and how it happened, about 12 years ago) I have never sustained any damage beyond the odd bruise or pulled muscle, which I undoubtedly would have had I got osteoporosis.

It is easy to pick one one incident and dscuss it, but it the overall picture, that came close to killing daughter, left DH without proper rehabilitation and everything else that I mentioned that indicates endemic problems in the NHS.

MOnica It seems you don't have a very good GP. That doesn't mean that the whole system is flawed. Your DH should have been referred to a respiratory specialist.

Incidentally, while I was waiting for my DEXA scan, I read one of the information leaflets, which stated that DEXA scans aren't routinely offered to people over 75 with stress fractures.

You need to be very careful with a Tory government. Health funds are in it for their own gain and the right wing branch of politics tend to support that sort of business. No doubt they would love there to be a lot of private health funds which they will say takes pressure off the NHS. Do not believe them, please, they are not speaking the truth. Private hospitals want your money and they sure as hell get it here in Australia.

I agree with you Casdon. The fragmentation means that some parts of the NHS (in England at any rate) are excellent (and I know I've been lucky). The idea that competition between providers drives improvement is nonsense (IMO). In any case, it doesn't help the people who are receiving less than satisfactory care.

In this regard I often think of a sister living in the US. Despite very hefty medical insurance premiums*, she still had to pay a $2000 excess for treatment of a badly cut finger.

I would never have known my grandmother if it had not been for the NHS. Just after it was set up she was diagnosed with womb cancer, and was one of the first to receive radiotherapy treatment at Mount Vernon Hospital in Middlesex. It worked and she had at least 15 more years of life dying at the age of 85. So the NHS wasn’t just set up for measles etc. The idea was cradle to grave.

I would have died 30yrs ago in my early 40's if there was no NHS from an aggressive cancer which was operated on the day after it was diagnosed I give thanks that surgeon every day.

My conclusion - some experiences of the NHS are shocking, some poor, some meh, some good, some excellent and some outstanding. Relating individual experiences is interesting, but that doesn’t mean they are typical, or that they can be used to measure the quality of the service overall.

What I think we can all agree on though, is that the overall quality of service is reducing. It’s not a coincidence that quality is reduced when a long-standing government is trying to prove for political ideological reasons that the model is flawed, so starves the service of funds, motivation and public goodwill.

growstuff read my post. I listed them in that.

You seem to live in an area of exceptional good service. perhaps your area could became an exemplar for the rest of the country.

In April this year, I was referred for a DEXA scan. I didn't have it until November. I was given no results at the time. I was told I would get the results when I 'saw' (actually a phone call) the consultant. My consultant's appointment is on 31st January. 9 months after my initial referral.

DH had heart bypass surgery. That went reasonably well, but he was given a antibiotic resistant infection while in the hospital, whuch came very close to killing him and left him with a damaged lung. He was discharged in a hurry because of COVID, no complaints about that and passed to Cardiac Rehabilitation, also done by phone because of COVID, again no complaints, but he was issued with an exercise plan, which he could not possibly manage because of the damage to his lung. Every time the CR nurse rang, he or I would tell them that he couldn't walk the distance they required because of his breathing problems (and it was freezing cold out) but all they did was tell him off for not meeting his targets. They just said they only dealt with CR and if he had lung problems he should speak to his GP. His GP just told him to contact the cardiac dept at the hospital as this was their responsibility. They, of course, just said they dealt with the heart problem not infections.

Then there was my DD, critically ill with her life under threat because of her GP's inefficiency. Would you like some more examples?

To those pointing out the nhs isn’t perfect, I don’t see anyone disagreeing, it remains though, a national treasure. It needs governments who are ideologically committed to a national health service and prepared to fund it properly.
Nurses shouldn’t have to pay for their training. They’re working when training, pay them to do so.
Don’t make hospital staff pay to park at work.

Our recent, extensive, involvement with the nhs brought home the impact of 10 years of austerity etc. I will never forget or fail to appreciate the level of holistic care given to my husband, or the kindness/professionalism shown to us during his final days.
His key day nurse was quite simply, wonderful

👍 brilliant!

Joseanne

For private investigations and treatment maybe it comes down to a better coordinated approach?

I didn't have private investigations and treatment. This was bog standard NHS.

They also sent the results to my GP, who contacted me immediately for a blood pressure/heart rate/diabetes check.

Joseanne

Sorry, and another question, do you get instant feedback from the actual person doing say the heart test that all looks good (or worrying) from their angle?

The person doing the echo was a technician. I received the results from a cardiologist, who had communicated with the cancer care team that there no problems with my heart. There was some concern because I've had a previous heart attack, so they checked.

I can't remember how many ultrasounds I had - five or six. I know I had three MRIs, an echocardiogram and a DEXA scan. They told me the results of the ultrasounds as I was having them. I was told I could wait up to three weeks for the results of the MRIs, echo and DEXA, but they were available later the same day. In the case of the DEXA, I was also sent a two page analysis of what the results showed. I was also sent (online) loads of pages showing the results of the echo and a cardiologist had written explanatory notes.

The only time I had to wait for anything was because my case had to go to a multi-disciplinary team meeting to decide what the best course of action was. I was then sent minutes of the meeting, explaining the decisions. I had the scans on a Thursday, the meeting was on Monday morning and I was sent the decision on Monday afternoon. A breast cancer nurse rang me as well, to make sure I understood and to check how I was feeling about everything.

For private investigations and treatment maybe it comes down to a better coordinated approach?