Is it OK to break the law if you are a Tory?

I'd like to know where Katie59 thinks 'the wealthy' got their wealth' from in the first place.

I'll tell, you, most of them got it from us in the first place. Us, the 'consumers' who , directly or indirectly' buy the goods and services they sell. Their money didn't just materialise out of thin air. Murdoch got rich by selling us media, Dyson did it by selling us vacuum cleaners. The Saudis did it by selling oil. Bezos did it by selling books and extending the range. Without our money they would have nothing.

Think about it.

I prefer to think that without those that labour for them, they would be nothing.

Maisie you are being deliberately obtuse, if pensions or other investments were just sitting there it would be true it’s wasteful. It’s not because the cash is being invested and grows to keep pace with inflation, so that we can have a better life in retirement. Along the way it creates jobs and a lot of taxation from those that do have enough, probably the most wasteful activity is the way we all buy what we “want” rather than what we “need”.

We are not going to change the system and live in some kind of socialist utopia, we saw in September what happens when polititians step out of line, we all suffer and the poorest suffer most. Maybe you think the socialist systems in China, Russia, Cuba and Venezuela should be held up as improving the lives of the poorest.

Despite its faults the UK system provides a good standard of life for most, changes do need to be made but no electable government is going to make big changes. If Truss taught us anything it’s step out of line, loose confidence, will cost us all a great deal. The wealthy should pay more, that is likely to include those with quite modest income, that has already started with freezing tax bands.

I think it's you who are being obtuse, Kati59.

Wwmk2. That as well, but it's consumers who are handing over the money.

Venture capitalists used to contribute most in taxes to the economy on huge profits years ago. Don’t know if still true.

And there is the problem ronib. All this nonsense about people who criticise Zawahi and others in the same league being jealous of their wealth. NO, I will admire anyone who builds a great business- if they employees have decent conditions and fair pay, and IF THEIR PAY THEIR TAXES.

Very few are asking 'We are not going to change the system and live in some kind of socialist utopia, '

but we certainly do not want to life in a far right capitalist hell! Do you?

Katie59 Cuba exports trained doctors to the third world but then I guess Australia does have ours! Cuba has loads more doctors and nurses per head of population than here but apparently health outcomes are similar. It has a community focus health care system where gp lives in same neighbourhood as patients and there is a relationship plus annual health check ups. Salaries for employees are kept low. Not sure about the profit bit. Is it more cohesive society as opposed to fragmented?

Not so sure how to gauge capitalism v socialism these days.

Capitalism in the UK and many parts of the world is changing fast, to an oligarchy system, with shades of fascism.

A very very different kettle of fish.

Fleurpepper so we can all chill about Zahawi as he has paid up! I think it’s time to revise the tax system.

Where on earth did I say that !?!

Fleurpepper I thought socialism had the oligarchs paradoxically

Nobody is suggesting a socialist economy are they?

I think that the majority if asked would opt for the type of mixed capitalist economy, that ensures good public services, and utilities that are run for the good of the system and economy.

Fleurpepper

Where on earth did I say that !?!

You mean you don’t want to revise the tax system?

Fleurpepper

And there is the problem ronib. All this nonsense about people who criticise Zawahi and others in the same league being jealous of their wealth. NO, I will admire anyone who builds a great business- if they employees have decent conditions and fair pay, and IF THEIR PAY THEIR TAXES.

I admire those that build useful businesses honestly, that does not include Zahawi and a lot of other Tories.

ronib

Fleurpepper I thought socialism had the oligarchs paradoxically

Socialist systems almost all exist for the benefit of the elite, China and Russia are no better examples.

Katie59

ronib

Fleurpepper I thought socialism had the oligarchs paradoxically

Socialist systems almost all exist for the benefit of the elite, China and Russia are no better examples.

Apart from North Korea, please give an example of a wholly socialist country. China and Russia have mixed economies.

At the moment I don’t admire anyone…. Don’t do deference much.

Growstuff is Peru socialist?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Hunter

I quite admire this chap, and his approach to life and business.

Never felt the need for deference towards him though. I don't suppose he'd expect it.

growstuff

Katie59

ronib

Fleurpepper I thought socialism had the oligarchs paradoxically

Socialist systems almost all exist for the benefit of the elite, China and Russia are no better examples.

Apart from North Korea, please give an example of a wholly socialist country. China and Russia have mixed economies.

How they differ from a capitalist mixed economy is that the state administers the market. It is not free. So it is not strictly speaking a capitalist economy. There are some businesses that are privately owned, but the majority of businesses are run by the state.

A socialist market economy.

No market is 100% free. For example, the UK has laws which place restraints on monopolies.

www.investopedia.com/terms/m/mixed-economic-system.asp#:~:text=Technically%2C%20almost%20every%20country%20can,limited%20number%20of%20private%20markets.

growstuff

No market is 100% free. For example, the UK has laws which place restraints on monopolies.

Yes but they operate in a free market capitalist economy, not an economy that is run by the state.

There is a difference.

ronib

Growstuff is Peru socialist?

Not as far as I know.

uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/0-500-7812?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true