Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

In my paper (DT) Nicola Sturgeon is quoted as saying:
some critics of her self -identification plans were "deeply misogynistic, often homophobic, possibly some of then racist as well."

Douglas Ross accused her of 'using utterly shameful language' in a desperate attempt to smear opponents of these reforms.
True.

What has racism got to do with this? She's spot on about the misogyny though, just accusing the wrong people.

Well said Douglas Ross, she should be ashamed but I doubt she will be.

As we’ve seen on threads here, supporters of trans ideology regularly stoop to accusing their opponents of racism, homophobia and not being feminist. It is shameful, and it shows a paucity of logic in their own claims that they have to resort to dragging in unrelated causes on which to hang them.

Wow

VioletSky

Wow

I know! It's mind-blowing, isn't it?

I absolutely cannot believe that comparing types of discrimination and allowing that we have seen how groups have been discriminated against in the past by holding them responsible for actions of individuals, is being twisted into something else.

I may agree with some of the issues but I just cannot find any way to relate to the way this topic is being discussed.

I hope one day people will see that and the damage it does to their own cause

Referring to rapists as she is extraordinarily damaging to any cause. I am not sure it is the gender critical 'cause' that has been damaged in the last couple of days.

Galaxy

Referring to rapists as she is extraordinarily damaging to any cause. I am not sure it is the gender critical 'cause' that has been damaged in the last couple of days.

It's not possible. It's an oxymoron.

My principles matter to me.

I do not put them aside for any cause. I've never called a rapist a she and I've never expected anyone to, especially their victims.

My principles might make me unpopular with both GC and some trans people but I will stick to them accross the board.

What I won't do is mindlessly follow ideas or people that are going my direction no matter how it is expressed or others are treated. I'm an intersectional feminist and I have no qualms disagreeing with other intersecrional feminist.

My principles are my principles and if you can't treat others as individuals and act as individuals that's your own downfall

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command
George Orwell, 1984

Absolutely, totally brilliant Jane (and Eric) ⭐️

VS
My principles are my principles and they don’t include supporting group or individual misogynists, or your newly identified fake trans in their attacks on females and their purposeful damage of the lives of genuine trans people.
My principles don’t support the claims of people who use their authentic selves to perpetrate rape as males, then demand to be imprisoned in women’s prisons.
VS, if your principles disagree with my principles on these matters, then as you say,
that’s your downfall

NB Are you saying that ALL TIM who, as their authentic selves attack females or cheat or lie to harm females are fake trans?
You introduced the appellation * fake trans* unless I’m mistaken. Would you like to clarify what you actually mean by that term?

I'm ignoring that Mollygo as it has no relation to anything I have actually said and can you please stop bringing your personal dislike of me to other topics as well, it's probably very obvious to others

But you put your personal principles on the thread VS. That’s a bit two faced if you don’t you think?
I don’t personally dislike you. I don’t know you. Disliking someone’s posts is allowed, and you evidently dislike mine.

I'm not going to dignify you with any more answers anywhere from this point onwards and same to anyone who can't keep things fair and honest in discussion without getting personal

It's just not worth my time to continuously have everything I say twisted

Violet hopefully to simplify matters.

Please can you explain how, in light of the Gender Recognition Act, can we spot / legislate for / etc etc a genuine transwoman and a ‘fake’ one?

I apologise if I am being over simplistic

VS.
My principles are my principles and if you can't treat others as individuals and act as individuals that's your own downfall.

You accuse then don’t want to reply. That’s fine by me.

No, I can't but I think it can be safeguarded and I think we need more support for transpeople with better qualified staff and an actual process for trans people to change gender safely without mistakes.

Everything that has been "acheived" so far is the opposite. People were happy about travistick rather than acknowledging it needed reform

I've never been in favour of self ID at any point. I think some men fetishise women and masquerade as trans and that is a risk and we are seeing that it is a genuine risk

I don't agree with blaming trans people for this in any way

This is not new, I have said this from the beginning

I think that you are more GC than you care to admit Violet
And thank you for your answer

But at the end of the day 90% of my time on these threads has become defending myself from stances I don't have and personal comments about me, my ability to do my job well as a TA and all sorts of things

I would like a solution based discussion and I gave up fighting for one and fighting for trans people not to be taken down for things they are not responsible for

The only thing my being here highlights is just how far people are willing to go for a cause by absolutely twisting things and being personal

Occasionally I run out of energy for that and this is one such time

I'm done for now

FannyCornforth

I think that you are more GC than you care to admit Violet
And thank you for your answer

No, trans women are women, trans people are valid, there is a reason this is happening and one day we will find a way forward together and families won't be broken, no one will be abused on the streets for not conforming to gender norms and discrimination will be a thing of the past against any marginalised group.

I'll never stop fighting for equality.

There are no gender norms!!!
That’s the whole point 🤦‍♀️

Happy in the knowledge that I cannot this without attack, transwomen are exactly that.

In addition to the excuse of fake trans we are now offered this

some men fetishise women and masquerade as trans

as an excuse for misogynistic TW, those we are assured are indistinguishable from authentic trans.
What next, I wonder?

The greatest harm to the lives of transpeople doesn’t come from females.
It comes from those TW who use their authentic selves to lie, cheat and harm females and thus impact on the public image of ALL transpeople.

FannyCornforth

There are no gender norms!!!
That’s the whole point 🤦‍♀️

If you are a woman who is sexually attracted to women; likes football; loves pink; loves doing her makeup; is into STEM - you are still a woman

If you are a man who fancies men; likes Jane Austen; wears a skirt: you are still a man.

All permutations are valid.
But if you are born with a fanny you are a woman
And if you are born with a penis you are a bloke

This makes my brain hurt
It’s so bloody simple