Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

Say it tilll you are blue in the face but they exist and they need eradicating

Non binary people are trying to do that but still not being allowed gender neutral pronouns

Butch lesbians and masculine appearing women are being bullied in public toilets for not looking the right gender

Children are being bullied in school as gay or trans based on not conforming to gender norms

Women also perpetuate this idea by saying trans women don't look female and pointing out masculine features declaring they can "always tell"

So fight it, I do but denying that they exist is like saying that there isn't a gender pay gap or a "pink tax"

It's real and it needs eradicating

However there will always be men and women and differences in our physical features and capabilities

So that won't stop trans people from wanting to be have physical features like a vagina, a penis or breasts that they werent born with because they feel that is what they should have been born with.

Because its likely that there are different genes and hormones at stages of development driving this

Perhaps a gender neutral society will make that easier for everyone

So you agree that gender stereotypes are wrong Violet?
So that’s what we should challenge, eh?
But, I’m not going to engage any further with your with your ‘genes and hormones’ business.
I find your views deeply homophobic.
But then I also think that you don’t have the foggiest what you are talking about.
It’s clear that you want to ‘be kind’

Wow

Lol I'm bisexual! Where does that idea come from?

I'm the B in the LGBTQ, a community I love

I'm not agreeing I'm the one saying it

Well I guess you can join the list then

Where is the problem?
Woman has a vagina.
Man has a penis.
It's as simple as that!!

Perhaps a gender neutral society will make that easier for everyone

VioletSky you might advocate the above but I certainly do not.

I am proud of being a women.

I am proud that the majority of female bodies can grow a baby human inside until it is ready to survive out of the womb.

I am proud of the way my forebears fought against misogyny leading to votes for women and equality in the work place.

Gender neutral society is a fairy tale pushed by misogynists to put women back in the kitchen and the bedroom

Lol

Thanks I needed a laugh

I can't with this lol

So - how is this person going to be recorded on the NDNAD?

Gender norms are so seperate to sex based needs and services

It is not I that doesn't understand that gender norms can bugger off and sex based services like safe spaces must stay

FannyCornforth

There are no gender norms!!!
That’s the whole point 🤦‍♀️

You’re so right.
If there are gender norms, what are people rebelling against?
We’ve passed the stage of ‘boys can’t play with dolls’ and ‘all girls like pink’.
We have male chefs, nurses and hairdressers and female engineers, forensic scientists and pilots.
Except when they’re wearing an outfit for the purpose of fraud, there are few restrictions on what you can wear but. . .
Even non binary males can’t get pregnant and non binary females can.
Non binary males may have prostate cancer, but not cervical cancer.

Soooo what outfits do NB people see as non-binary clothes?
Women wearing trousers? OMG am I NB? Men wearing skirts? Scots have done that for years, and besides, wouldn’t that constitute conforming to a woman’s ‘norm’?

As you say FannyCornforth
But if you are born with a fanny you are a woman
And if you are born with a penis you are a bloke
I’m happy to point this out, knowing I won’t be under attack.

GG13
Gender neutral society is a fairy tale pushed by misogynists to put women back in the kitchen and the bedroom

And some females evidently support that. and find it lol

So toxic

/thread

I am proud of being a woman so I welcome genuine transgender women into the fold. I am not threatened by them.

Life is too short to remain in a state of disliking inclusion as long as people behave decently and with compassion to each other:

and inasmuch as there are "sides", (which I greatly regret, for I think there are a whole range of views not an either/or situation such as the debate nearly always ends up with atm)

I greatly abhor violent words and actions - from either. And to me, violence includes denial of genuine trans gender lives.

I dont know what denial of transgender lives means.

Galaxy

I dont know what denial of transgender lives means.

Me neither.

How do you define a 'genuine' transwoman, and do they need to take hormones/have surgery or just self declare? Can they sport beards like Alex Drummond who became a lesbian simply by donning jewellery and stereotypical female clothing? Can they be transwomen while still wearing stereotypical male clothing?

On the subject of this thread one male gets moved from the female estate and another gets permission to move into it.
twitter.com/ShonaghDillon/status/1619293958651387904

Inclusion for some minority groups will mean exclusion for other natal female groups.

Women are still oppressed by men even in Western societies, you only have to look to the US and rights on access to contraception and abortion. We do not need loopholes in sex based rights that could include men.

The most sensible solution is to have transgender based rights that are inclusive of their own needs and rights that don't exclude any other group.

People cannot interpret the law as it stands, hence why a rapist was housed in a female prison and why a paedophile was given protection in women's shelter. It isn't toxic to be concerned about that.

I read a delightful thread where a transgender female was trying to get a woman with Down syndrome sacked from her job as she didn't want a man in the toilets with her. They failed to grasp that a woman with down syndrome may have had it drilled into her how her personal safety could be at risk from a man because of her disability. So inclusion is great but there needs to sensibilities about how it excludes others

And everyone who calls these two people men are saying exactly what GC feminists have been saying for years, bigots corner now seems to include well everyone. Although the fact that my 'bigotry' is now shared with Owen Jones is making me reassess everything.

JaneJudge
The most sensible solution is to have transgender based rights that are inclusive of their own needs and rights that don't exclude any other group.
It would have made much more sense for it to be approached like that in the first place.

The Times is running Janice Turners article on this issue, Male pronouns used throughout.
I always get a bit upset when people make sweeping statements about our 'dangerous' media as I think there are some brave journalists out there doing great work.

Has my link to a Twitter post been missed, because I can't believe people won't be concerned by the proposal to move another violent 'transwoman' from the male estate to the female estate? I've found a link to a newspaper article instead of Twitter.
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/new-trans-prisoner-storm-looms-29069314

This is a dangerous male, who would need to be kept isolated from the women for their safety, so why move him?

It's not only women prisoners who are at risk but also female prison staff who might be required to search an intact male who has much greater strength than her.

Hopefully NS’s latest U-turn will impact on this person as well.
I wonder what impact it would have if all TW imprisoned for offences against females (Committed either as men or as TW,)
were offered immediate medical treatment to remove the male parts so they had truly made a commitment to their authentic selves’ as a condition of their housing in female prisons.

VioletSky

I absolutely cannot believe that comparing types of discrimination and allowing that we have seen how groups have been discriminated against in the past by holding them responsible for actions of individuals, is being twisted into something else.

I'm not sure I understand this, but it seems to be referring to the fact that numerous times on this board people who have stuck to facts (eg 'you can't change sex') and pointed out uncomfortable truths (eg that 'fake' transwomen are a danger to women) have been accused of racism, homophobia and more, over a number of threads.

Nicola Sturgeon appears to be adopting the same distractionary tactics to deflect from what must be an extremely embarrassing situation - very soon after her attempt to push through her misogynist legislation, and on the back of her rather masterful stroke of backing Westminster into a corner so they had to block it, thus giving the SNP a stick with which to beat the English and simultaneous brownie points with the trans lobby, a male rapist attempts to get placed in a female prison, exposing the flaws in the plan, and showing that her critics were right all along. Oops.

I wasn't twisting anything, simply pointing out that she is not the first person to try that line of argument, and that it never works, as it Just Isn't True.