Woman found guilty of raping two women. Remanded in custody for sentence end February

doodledog read back, that's not what I said

I cannot possibly know if a rapist is a genuine transperson, some may very well be. Women have been violated by other women sexually.

I ask for safeguarding to prevent that occurance and for the protection of women's safe spaces anyway so...

VS you work with children where safeguarding is taken far more seriously and in open view, compared with other vulnerable sectors of society

Janejudge I know and I believe it is so important and more safeguarding and risk assessments need to be in place in many areas

Oh gosh, we’re back to the
masculine appearing women and butch lesbisans scenarios.

VS
It's only a contradiction if you believe all trans women are actually men...

Which I don't.
I don’t believe all TW are male . . .
I know it for a fact.
You can believe whatever you like, but it doesn’t make it true if it’s factually wrong and since your belief facilitates some of those males having opportunities to harm females that they would not have if they weren’t claiming to be women . . .

VS Gender dysphoria is a strong feeling in your head that your internal 'sense of self' and your physical body don't match, have I got that right? That would suggest it's a psychological phenomenon that would maybe benefit from psychological help? Why jump to change the body to fit the mind, why not first try to bring the mind into line with the body? In the case of someone with anorexia, no doctor affirms the brain's interpretation of fatness with encouraging starvation diets, but instead counselling is employed.

No matter how many hormones a man takes, or how much surgery he undertakes, and most do not have any surgery, he remains male, even if he goes on to identify as a transwoman. So all transwomen are male, even if they dispute the descriptor man. That doesn't mean transwomen can't live happy lives in their presentation, just so long as they respect the very few single sex areas where they shouldn't go.

Rosie51, that’s what generally happened. The Cass report criticises the Tavistock clinic’s approach in taking gender disphoria as the focus, rather than complete a comprehensive psychological assessment of the children/young people referred. Breast binding, medications were, Cass concludes, offered without the necessary detailed assessment.

Self ID, absent any outside expert involvement seems fraught with problems, even where adults are concerned.

So, if trans people respect women's safe spaces

Can you respect their pronouns?

Who are you asking VioletSky

VS I have read back, and this is what you said:

Any man pretending to have gender dysphoria in order to have access to victims is not a trans woman.

So. When we say that there are men who fake being transwomen in order to access women's spaces we are (a) wrong, and (b) transphobic. But when you say it it is (right, and (b) kind?

This is like plaiting fog.

You are turning it into a logic puzzle based on my stance being the wrong one in your mind doodledog

You dint have to respect my feelings on this but considering them will help you understand a different point of view

VioletSky

So, if trans people respect women's safe spaces

Can you respect their pronouns?

VS is this yet another diversion.
If all trans people respect female safe spaces, . . .

Then using a plural pronoun for a singular person might become more acceptable.

Do you think the first premise is likely?

If all trans people stood up and said that what the few violent, lying, fake trans and the TRA are doing is wrong, that would be an even greater incentive.

I won’t hold my breath, waiting for that, and neither should you.

Iam64

Who are you asking VioletSky

Open question

The accused has been transferred to a male prison. On R4 news today.

I'm in favour of self ID but not of convicted offenders using other's genuine need to change gender as an excuse to possibly offend further.

I'm not going to apologise on behalf of parents murdering their children just because I am one Mollygo

That's not logical

What I can do is safeguard children

I stand with Mollygo - I’m waiting for the trans community to state thst threatening to rape, murder, behead women they accuse of being terf is just wrong

Iam

Have you spoken to all of them?

How do you know they haven't?

Does it have to be to you personally?

Iam64

I stand with Mollygo - I’m waiting for the trans community to state thst threatening to rape, murder, behead women they accuse of being terf is just wrong

What, do you want to line these people all up and demand they swear officially or something.

Why do I have some kind of right or indeed necessity to ask my one trans Quaker friend "what is her position on this that and the other?"

she's a Samaritan and 70. she has friends who are and aren't trans and I have no right to demand what you are asking.

VioletSky

You are turning it into a logic puzzle based on my stance being the wrong one in your mind doodledog

You dint have to respect my feelings on this but considering them will help you understand a different point of view

It's not a logic puzzle. It's an obvious contradiction.

According to your comment above, your stance is that a man who fakes having gender dysphoria to access women's spaces 'is not a transwoman'.

I agree - which is why I don't think that men should be able to access women's spaces - there will be men who are not transwomen who fake gender dysphoria in order to do it.

And those who don't even bother to do that, but just say 'I am a woman' and are allowed in.

OK so what's the problem then? Is the problem that we agree on something?

waiting is not demanding, Wyllow.
How did you extrapolate that from what Iam64 said? 🤔

I'm sure your friend would not approve of such threats of terrorism but a spokesperson could stand up and assure us all that such violence is roundly condemned by the transgender community.

Or should we be left to believe that a deafening silence might mean tacit approval of such threats?

VioletSky

OK so what's the problem then? Is the problem that we agree on something?

Are you saying that you agree that men will feign trans status in order to access women's spaces?

VioletSky

I'm not going to apologise on behalf of parents murdering their children just because I am one Mollygo

That's not logical

What I can do is safeguard children

You are a parent who murdered children?
I wouldn’t have believed it, but if you say you won’t apologise on behalf of parents who murder their children because you are (such a) one . . .

VioletSky
Realistically there should be a seperate prison for that type of offender but there is probably some question of whether that infringes on their rights to visitors etc

But personally I would put safeguarding above rights as we do in many other situations

HMP Whatton (Nottinghamshire) is where male sex offenders are usually placed as far as I can tell - certainly in the Midlands.
I worked with a number of men who were released from Whatton.

Oh come on Mollygo

Just because I am a parent

That was low

The nature of the wording and attitude expressed in the whole post, Callistemon21.

In the context of the whole post, it feels like a demand, given that "waiting" is pretty much the same in terms of what it actually asks.

It implies that a response should be forthcoming:

I wished to make the point that this is not reasonable in my opinion.