Another child killed in dog attack

I'm not convinced that banning breeds works, either. I am a dog lover, and would like to think we'll get another one at some point, but something needs to be done to stop unscrupulous breeders and irresponsible owners.

Maybe making all sales of dogs illegal, with breeders not just registered but controlled might work? If only dogs from licensed breeding 'farms' (for want of a better word) could be legally sold, the money would fall out of the over-breeding market, and the types of dogs made available could be controlled.

Potential owners could be vetted and perhaps there could be tests of some sort to prove that they are capable of looking after their pets.

I'm thinking aloud here, but would that work?

Apparently the family only bought the dog 6 weeks ago.

Very sadly nothing will be done.
Today’s news will be tomorrow’s chip papers. Apart for the family concerned though, who today will be grieving and organising a funeral.

That said, I don’t know the answer either.

It would be ideal Doodledog but the task would be so enormous that I don’t know how such a policy could be policed effectively. The sort of people who go for these very aggressive ‘macho’ dogs will always find a way to acquire them under the radar. I’m in favour of continuing to have banned breeds and adding to the list as more dangerous breeds come along, as seems to be happening.

Didn’t the RSPCA water down the last Dangerous Dogs Bill?
I agree, more breeds need to be added to the list but bad boys will still ‘use’ them to intimidate rivals.

I'm not sure banning certain breeds works - those who want a particular type of dog know every trick in the book to get around the legislation. And, as has been said repeatedly on these type of threads, you can bring in any law you want, but it is enforcing those laws which is the problem. Councils are already strapped for cash - ours is currently proposing more than £14m worth of cuts which include getting rid of many vital local services - so where the money is going to come from for additional dog wardens or anything like that, I don't know.
And I wholeheartedly agree with GSM - dogs can enrich our lives so much. They give such unconditional love. I would go without to make sure my dog would not go without anything it needed. Do not demonise all dogs for the actions of a few - especially when the problem is usually with irresponsible owners.

According to Wikipedia, 26 incidences of children killed by dogs in the UK since the turn of the millennium. That's in addition to rather more adults so killed, although the deaths of children tend to be more publicised.

Depending on your perspective, that makes such deaths quite rare: a little over one a year. It's less, for example, than the number of people killed by defective toasters every year. Or it's also 26 deaths too many.

The numbers seem to have increased sharply since 2020 – it's a small sample so too much shouldn't be read into it but I at least started thinking of dogs acquired from rescue centres since Lockdown. Also, a brief purely subjective analysis suggests that many of the dogs were of breeds sought after by a young men of a certain disposition for fighting and 'protection'. Quite a few of the dogs' owners were described as uncles of young children, which fits that pattern.

While there are some attacks that aren't easily explained and some that happened when dogs and babies were left alone together for minutes while the owner dealt with an emergency. I was also struck by the number of victims who were owners killed while having an epileptic seizure, including one where the dog, a rottweiler, had not attacked as such but appears to have attempted to pick up her owner by the scruff of the neck as she would one of her own puppies.

It's probably impossible to stop such attacks altogether but there does seem to be a clear pattern of irresponsible ownership and the deliberate unlicensed breeding of aggressive dogs for fighting. It's an old but true saying that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

Rescue centres vet potential owners very carefully. They ask not only about children living at the prospective home, but visiting children. They also want to know whether you work outside the home. When I adopted my current GSD other people who were interested in her had been turned down as they were deemed ‘unsuitable’. A big problem at present is of course the puppies bought during lockdown with no thought for their welfare once the owners returned to work. Boredom breeds bad behaviour.

Again, I totally agree with all of that, GSM. After we lost our old Lab in June 2020, we looked into rehoming a rescue, but none would consider us as we had our grandson, then 3, staying with us, and I totally understand their reasons for having such criteria. On your second point, I am on various Lab groups on Facebook and all the time I see people who got puppies during lockdown raising issues either because the puppies weren't properly trained or socialised during lockdown, or now that they've gone back to work, they wonder why the poor dog is behaving 'badly' because it's left alone all day and is clearly bored.

Germanshepherdsmum I don't know as much about dog rescue centres as about cat rescue centres but I know that cat rescues do vary in rigour. My current two came from Glasgow Cats Protection and I was thoroughly vetted and interviewed at home before they picked out the pair they thought suited my circumstances (they do like to keep cats together which is good). They are very careful about letting a cat go to a home with young children or other animals including other cats unless they are really certain of the animal's temperament. Domestic cats causing domestic deaths are vanishingly rare (shredded limbs from trying to pick up a cat who doesn't want to be picked up or insert one into a carrier are another matter).

I know a lot of dogs don't get enough exercise. I am reminded of my experience offering to look after young Charlie the Jug (pug/Jack Russell cross) for an afternoon a couple of years ago. I walked Charlie along the canal/Kelvin Walkway to the Botanic Gardens and back (a fair trek which wore me out but left the dog unmoved) and he still wanted a vigorous game of fetch when we got home. The worst he did to me was to try to lick my face off when I collapsed on a bench! Charlie's mummy and I agreed that he needed a younger dogminder with energetic children who would take him to the park.

I'm now considering having a dog to go with the moggies but it would have to be a less excitable one than Charlie, and definitely not a big dog although I am inclined towards retrievers,

GSM is correct. Our specific breed charities and rescue centres are very careful to assess prospective adopters. The breed charity I volunteer for places poodle crosses. Relinquished dogs go to experienced foster carers for assessment, during that they’re neutered so they can’t be exploited. Prospective adopters have phone then home visits to assess suitability. The charity won’t place if there are children under 8, if there isn’t a safe enclosed yard or garden.
This approach reflects that of other rescues/shelters. I’ve seen endless complaints from people who say the criteria too stringent so they will import a street dog from Romania. As others have said, many of these poor dogs can’t adjust to domestic life.
The big problems I see are people leaving dogs 8-6 and doing no formal training classes. My lovely young lab would likely eat his way out if abandoned like that. If not on lead, he’d be an over enthusiastic greeter. We will get there, but it’s a myth that all labs are laid back, easy to train gentle giants.

Absolutely, Iam64 - we have always had black Labs and they are the most wonderful dogs, but they do need proper training right from the early days. Some are very laid back creatures, others - like our new boy - are a bundle of energy and I think what some people don't realise that they not only need physical exercise, but mental stimulation too. Obviously, this goes for all breeds - but some more so than others. Leaving any dog alone all day is a recipe for trouble.

The breeders my 3 pedigrees have come from have all been registered with the kennel club. They’ve all been dog bonkers, either showing and/or competing. The bitches and litters live in the house so pups are well socialised to domestic noises and people. These breeders commit to any puppy for life. Always at the end of a phone. They breed for temperament and health. I’m aware there are some rogues who manage to get kc approval but it has to be better than nothing

Many of the popular poodle crosses are bred in puppy farms. The litters live in indoor stalls with their mother removed at 6 weeks. They’re sold at 8 weeks to anyone with the cash.
I’d ban these commercial farms.
I’d ban the sale of dogs on gumtree etc
I’d impose the same expectations on home/hobby breeders as on the formal breeders, ie assessment, registration, 5 generation pedigree etc

Could we insist people attend training groups? I’m fed up with dogs running up to mine, owners with no recall.

And - legislate on professional dog walkers. Minimum training requirement should convince them no one can control more than 3 dogs - and it depends on the dog. My spaniel could be walked with 2 others. Not my young lab

Sorry a quick add on- I’ve had 12 dogs over 50 years, only 3 pedigree pups, the rest mix breed rescues. Then there have been the fosters

The latest dog attack was mentioned at PMQT today. I thought the MP was going to ask that these fatalities need to be investigated but all he did was ask that parliament sympathise with the child’s parents.

Many of these points were covered in the terrifying Panorama programme. Unscrupulous breeders getting around their ban, unsuitable people who hadn't the slightest idea being allowed to" part- own ",dogs which they could not control ,laws that were not stringent enough all this backed up by film. They interviewed people who had been affected ,but until the laws are tightened considerably nothing can be done . There was even one man running a large breeding group from prison and needless to say the ones they were breeding were the ones who could be trained to be aggressive, or in the hands of someone who could not be bothered to train develop that streak. It was a frightening watch as some of these poor dogs also had to be destroyed because of horrendous breeding faults.

I’ve just read that the dog in question was an American Bulldog only recently acquired. Yet again, and I’m sorry to say this, irresponsible. It’s probably an XL Bully and the problem with banned breeds is that they aren’t a breed recognised by the Kennel Club. They are a mixture of breeds and there is no standard so difficult for an expert to state what breed it is. They’re gaining in popularity, change hands for ridiculous sums of money and, as in all cases where breeds become demonised, people are driven by money and breed irresponsibly. The dogs aren’t properly looked after, the market gets flooded, they lose value and start changing hands. It’s a recipe for disaster. These dogs killed children and adults last year and there’s going to be more if something isn’t done. What responsible parent would have one of these with a probably unknown back story around children. It beggars belief.

I think that was what a journalist was told by a neighbour tickingbird. As far as I’m aware the police haven’t yet disclosed the breed - possibly because they’re still trying to establish that. It’s not always easy I believe.

Kate1949 you are not on your own, and I am an animal lover. I have seen an increasing number of badly behaved dogs and thoughtless owners. I do think a lot of people got a dog during lockdown and have no clue about responsible dog ownership. I have had a Rottweiler jump up at me and the owners made no attempt to call the dog back. Telling me it’s just being friendly when I’ve been knocked over doesn’t help much. I’m afraid of serious injury, it wouldn’t take much to break a bone these days.

Thank you Blossoming. I'm glad I'm not a minority of one! I've had a few bad experiences with dogs. I'm terrified of them. I'm a bit tired of 'there are no bad dogs, it wasn't trained, it's the owners' mantra. I wish dogs no harm. I just make sure I'm never near one if possible.

Interesting article from The Independent about the huge increase in dog attacks in the last 20 years.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/dog-attack-rotherham-incidents-uk-danger-b2261700.html

Kate1949

Thank you Blossoming. I'm glad I'm not a minority of one! I've had a few bad experiences with dogs. I'm terrified of them. I'm a bit tired of 'there are no bad dogs, it wasn't trained, it's the owners' mantra. I wish dogs no harm. I just make sure I'm never near one if possible.

Which is why, as a dog owner, it infuriates me when fellow dog owners just let their dogs run up to other dogs and people. My grandson and SIL, even though they now have a dog of their own, are still scared of other dogs. Just saying ‘it’s ok, he’s friendly’ doesn’t cut it. And, after our dog was attacked by another dog, we panic if a dog runs towards us.

How much is a child life worth, £50 a dog or £100 or £ 500. Even £ 500 is far less than owners pay for pet dogs, that licence fee would pay for owner training and very good dog control.
But if nobody cares deaths will continue and on this forum it is clear nobody cares.

Poor little girl and the parents that are going to have to live with this.
The breed is hearsay from the neighbours some say they didn't even know there was a dog in the home which is strange you can't keep a big dog and not walk it regularly.
There is no easy answer if you adopt a breed you really have to have an idea what you are dealing with as well as the dogs history even then you can't be sure

Our granddaughter who is in her 20s loves dogs. However, when she was small, she was afraid of them. I took her for a walk one day and a dog not on a lead bounded up to her. She froze and I picked her up. The owner's response was 'You've got a phobic there'. I said 'Please don't call my granddaughter a phobic. Control your dog'.