Another child killed in dog attack

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m not on Twitter so can’t read it, but prefer to get news from sources other than social media.

I am not either. You can just click on it. It is a video of the Police unable to control the dog at all.

Perspective may be a challenge but it’s vital Lucky. Your freedom is probably largely curtailed by your dislike of dogs. Have you considered that you are in a minority? Blondiescot makes valid points.

Luckygirl3

Germanshepherdsmum

The trouble is, Kate and Lucky, the thinking of those who dislike dogs is coloured by that dislike, which means they don’t focus on the real problems which threaten all of us - the dangerous dogs which need to be banned and the morons who keep and breed them. It’s totally unrealistic to say, for example, that dogs should be banned from towns and that everybody should be provided with a dog dazer. Nobody is saying that dog lovers’ wishes should be paramount, simply that we all need to keep a sense of perspective.

Perspective is a challenge when children's lives are at stake.
And when my and others' freedom are curtailed ... lovely common near me ... Great for walking if you fancy running the gauntlet of the dogs.

Hundreds of people are killed by drunk drivers every year - yet we already have laws against drink driving. Simply bringing in more stringent laws won't necessarily prevent more deaths. As I said, we can walk for miles through open countryside and woods and never encounter another human or dog, so why should my dog have to be put on a leash under those circumstances? He is on a lead at other times.

Thanks Calli. If the police were trying to find the owner it may have been abandoned, unchipped and without ID tag - both illegal - and may have been terrified. Problems with some dogs and some owners, indeed, but it has to start with the owners without whom we would not have dangerous dogs. Sorry to hear about your friend and I hope he’s ok.

Of course people have a right to dislike dogs Kate. There are living creatures that I absolutely hate - spiders for one, which some people keep as pets. 😱

Germanshepherdsmum

The trouble is, Kate and Lucky, the thinking of those who dislike dogs is coloured by that dislike, which means they don’t focus on the real problems which threaten all of us - the dangerous dogs which need to be banned and the morons who keep and breed them. It’s totally unrealistic to say, for example, that dogs should be banned from towns and that everybody should be provided with a dog dazer. Nobody is saying that dog lovers’ wishes should be paramount, simply that we all need to keep a sense of perspective.

Perspective is a challenge when children's lives are at stake.
And when my and others' freedom are curtailed ... lovely common near me ... Great for walking if you fancy running the gauntlet of the dogs.

It's ok.

I did say that owners (probably) love their dog(s) but it doesn't mean they love all dogs.

I'm not keen on cats (ducks for cover) oh, here she comes 🐈

No you didn't. Apologies.

Kate1949

*Callistemon*. Yes of course people love their dogs. I also understand that people have them for company and assistance dogs are wonderful. What I mean is that people have a right to dislike dogs as they have the right to dislike anything else.

I'm not arguing 🤔

I don't think I said people had no right to dislike dogs, correct me if I'm wrong.

Callistemon. Yes of course people love their dogs. I also understand that people have them for company and assistance dogs are wonderful. What I mean is that people have a right to dislike dogs as they have the right to dislike anything else.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m not on Twitter so can’t read it, but prefer to get news from sources other than social media.

It could be this, GSM, (it's the DM!)
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11709363/Moment-police-struggle-restrain-vicious-dog-bites-child-stunned-onlookers.html

No owner around?

A friend was bitten by a dog recently as he just walked along the road near his home. The dog was on a lead but lurched forward and went for his leg. The young male owner was rude and unhelpful and just left our friend there.

There is a problem with some owners and some dogs.
There are also a lot of dogs suffering at the hands of irresponsible owners.

Can't access it, sorry, FleurPepper, it's restricted.
Surely not another one?

A PP said that her dog is off the lead in a very open area and she should be allowed to do this ... but what about others who wish to use that same open area unmolested?

Which is why dogs and owners should be well-trained.

Most dogs won't run up to anyone and molest them when they're out off lead and busy enjoying themselves sniffing around.
They're as interested in you as you are in them.
But that is why recall training is essential.

I will say that some owners don't persist with enough training.
And I cannot bear to see dogs eating off their owners' plates in cafes and restaurants.

I’m not on Twitter so can’t read it, but prefer to get news from sources other than social media.

This is seriously concerning

twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/1621205178388021250?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1621205178388021250%7Ctwgr%5E5fcd483fc97f65a3b33021893d66436c9825fc5b%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolice-restrain-dog-bites-child-mile-end%2F

and of course, no sign of owner, and I bet the dog is not microchipped. Poor child, poor dog- that will de destroyed. Criminal b*st*rd owner.

The trouble is, Kate and Lucky, the thinking of those who dislike dogs is coloured by that dislike, which means they don’t focus on the real problems which threaten all of us - the dangerous dogs which need to be banned and the morons who keep and breed them. It’s totally unrealistic to say, for example, that dogs should be banned from towns and that everybody should be provided with a dog dazer. Nobody is saying that dog lovers’ wishes should be paramount, simply that we all need to keep a sense of perspective.

I do not think there are 2 "brigades" .. haters
and obsessives. That is too black and white. There are those of us whose experience of dogs has been very negative indeed and it would be odd if we did not wish to prevent the dog lovers from allowing their animals to invade their space and make a nuisance/danger of themselves.

I think both sides would agree that steps need to be taken to improve things, but it is inevitable that it will be hard to agree over the degree of action that should be taken
A PP said that her dog is off the lead in a very open area and she should be allowed to do this ... but what about others who wish to use that same open area unmolested?
I think we should be looking at very strict measures even if dog lovers have to face restrictions they do not like. I, and others, do not like the situation as it is.... should those people have no say? Should the dog lovers' wishes always be paramount?

Dinahmo

Kate1949

With respect GSM, and this isn't meant to be a dig, but people are perfectly entitled to have a deep dislike of dogs as long as they are doing no harm to them.

What about all those people for whom a dog is a genuine life line. Especially the older generation.

I watch the programme "In the Dog House" at the Digs' Trust. There's often older people who go to find a companion because they want company and also a reason to get up and go out. Last night an elderly lady aged 85 (co-founder of Rigby and Peller) whose husband of 60 years had died. They selected a Bassett Hound for her which she bonded with fairly quickly. Upon reflection she decided that the dog was big for her so she is still looking. But many find the right dog on their first visit.

😀
When I took our first dog to dog training classes, there was a Basset Hound there with its owner, a young man.
This Basset Hound, daft as a brush, very gentle but clever too, would refuse to follow any commands. He would roll on to his back and just lie there. They're quite heavy dogs to shift too.

Luckygirl, we can walk our dog for miles every day in open countryside and through woods without seeing another person or dog. Why should he have to be put on a lead under those circumstances? None of us on here have said we are against tighter measures or licensing - but therein lies the rub. It's not the likes of us who are causing the problems, it's the irresponsible owners. But cases like this always bring out the kneejerk reactions in the dog-hating brigade.

Kate1949

With respect GSM, and this isn't meant to be a dig, but people are perfectly entitled to have a deep dislike of dogs as long as they are doing no harm to them.

What about all those people for whom a dog is a genuine life line. Especially the older generation.

I watch the programme "In the Dog House" at the Digs' Trust. There's often older people who go to find a companion because they want company and also a reason to get up and go out. Last night an elderly lady aged 85 (co-founder of Rigby and Peller) whose husband of 60 years had died. They selected a Bassett Hound for her which she bonded with fairly quickly. Upon reflection she decided that the dog was big for her so she is still looking. But many find the right dog on their first visit.

I think much should and could be done, Luckygirl

Speaking as someone who has been a dog owner, I wouldn't say that those posting on here who own and love their dogs could be called 'dog-lovers' because loving one's own dog(s) doesnt mean it unconditionally extends to all dogs.
Posters seem to be reasonable with sensible views.

Bring in a law of "dog nuisance" so that any dog being a nuisance of any kind (barking, jumping up etc.) can be either removed from that useless owner or the owner be fined

Barking - well dogs do bark but yes, incessant barking all day every day because the dog has been left alone perhaps outside is dreadful for the neighbours.
Jumping up - that can be frightening and our DGD was knocked over by a large, unknown dog when she was about two and is still rather nervous. And a friend was out walking when a large, luckily friendly dog jumped up and put its paws on her shoulders and licked her face!

It's the owners who need training as well as the dogs.
Unscrupulous breeders should be shut down and banned from keeping animals for life.
Rescue centres should be much more careful when rehoming dogs which may have had a difficult past. This latest tragic case is just one too many.

With respect GSM, and this isn't meant to be a dig, but people are perfectly entitled to have a deep dislike of dogs as long as they are doing no harm to them.

Dear Lord, Lucky.

Throw money at having dog wardens - you need the likes of armed police dog handlers to deal with dangerous dogs, not the likes of traffic wardens.
Strengthen the law on importation - fine. Tell fp who’s about to bring one in.
Ban adverts - I haven’t seen any such. Public information campaign fine if sensibly done.
Dog dazers in the hands of the general public - you cannot be serious.
Limitation on numbers of dogs owned - it’s not the numbers owned, it’s the breeds and the utter morons who own the dangerous ones.
Ban dogs from towns - that’s plain daft.
Ban walking off lead everywhere - no way, even though I don’t do it myself.
Obligatory training - unenforceable.
Compulsory insurance ditto.
Nuisance - we do have nuisance laws. You obviously don’t know that.

I’m afraid your suggestions smack of a deep dislike of dogs. The real problems have been pointed out here ad nauseum.

It's not just deaths, although I think we would all agree that one is too many. The vet in TV this morning said that last year almost 9000 people were treated in hospital for dog bites.

Fleurpepper

I am not in defence of rescuing from abroad. I am rescuing a dog from Tunisia found by a friend, and who has been under observation and training for 5 months and proven to be safe. We have no young children, and we are very experienced, and we will do obedience classes and training with her. she is arriving week-end after next. We are fully ready.

No dogs should be rescued from abroad, if you have empathy for such animals invest in a local charity abroad.

There are hundreds of rescue centres in the UK who are desperate for finding forever homes for their dogs.

Luckygirl13 It sounds as though more is being done with the Dogs' Trust and other organisations explaining to children how to behave around dogs.

We have two blind dogs, both aged about 10 - 11. One is a bit frightened of visitors and runs away, the other growls at them. So, when friends come who don't know them we put a lead on the growly one and let our visitors introduce themselves to him. Usually he calms down and makes friends. If they don't like dogs or are scared of them we put him in the bedroom as soon as they arrive. Putting a lead on him before we open the door ensures that we have control.

Someone asked how many children aged under 16 are killed in the UK. The most recent figures are for the year to 31 March 2021. The answer is 59 and 42% of those were killed by a parent or step parent. It is rare for a child to be killed by a stranger - usually it's 1 a year. Regarding children killed by dogs, the latest figures I could find were for 2015 (ONS) which was 2 and for 2016 and 2017 (Department for the Environment ) which were 5 and 1 respectively.

One could go further and check the number of reported incidences of attacks on people of all ages but I suspect they would be minimal compared with attacks by humans on humans.

Imagine the outcry if police forces were obliged to check dog licenses (if they existed) and registered dog walkers. It would be huge because it would have to be at the expense of serious crimes. Listen to the outcry about firemen rescuing cats from trees - 200 in the last year on record. Apart from anything else it's good practice for them to climb up ladders in what are some times difficult circumstances.