One for those who never go on the News and Politics Forum

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

MerylStreep

Not everyone has a thick skin like Urmstongran.
If she stopped feeding them, they’d be stuffed.

Oh ‘eck! Maybe I ought to stop! 🤣

😄😄😄😄 like me you can’t help yourself. Besides it is fun.

It is! And I can’t. 🤣
However whilst getting ready to leave just now I got to thinking. (Dangerous for me). In future if I read an article that I find of interest I think I’m going to post it in ‘Chat’ not ‘News’. Kind of less forensic, more opinion based? Like what you’d do round a table with friends “did you see such and-such in the paper/on tv this morning?” No-one ever says about your opinion ‘can you give evidence/provide a link’ there! Might be a better way forward in a gentler way to encourage more of us to just ‘chat’ about topics.

Any thoughts?

Yes- sounds good to me. What right do these people have to dissect posts and crap on anyway ? Pretend intellectuals ?

Urmstongran

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

MerylStreep

Not everyone has a thick skin like Urmstongran.
If she stopped feeding them, they’d be stuffed.

Oh ‘eck! Maybe I ought to stop! 🤣

😄😄😄😄 like me you can’t help yourself. Besides it is fun.

It is! And I can’t. 🤣
However whilst getting ready to leave just now I got to thinking. (Dangerous for me). In future if I read an article that I find of interest I think I’m going to post it in ‘Chat’ not ‘News’. Kind of less forensic, more opinion based? Like what you’d do round a table with friends “did you see such and-such in the paper/on tv this morning?” No-one ever says about your opinion ‘can you give evidence/provide a link’ there! Might be a better way forward in a gentler way to encourage more of us to just ‘chat’ about topics.

Any thoughts?

Yes sounds good to me Urmston. Chatting with friends is far more enjoyable than being quoted facts and figures all the time. Many of us have opinions on politics and politicians without being able to quote the exact sources.

I usually do just that Urms.

It does seem like a superannuated
6th form debating society at times

Well, this thread seems to have established that lots of posters are really, really interested in politics, so the OP wasn't targeted at them at all. But they've taken the opportunity to come on and have a pop at 'some people', anyway.

It's immaterial really whether interested folks post on N & P or not.

It was the 'not interested in politics' folk that the OP was seeking, I think because they are the most frustrating section of the voting public who appear to have power without responsibility and who contribute to momentous and far reaching events without any thought at all. They always seem to be the people chosen for media vox pops, which also makes one wonder if those who are interested in politics are in a minority.

Sounds good Urmstrong but where are the ‘rules’ that you have to provide evidence ect on N&P seems unique to GN
Can’t people just have an opinion this is just a forum.

The clue was in the title Maizie

Urmstongran

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

MerylStreep

Not everyone has a thick skin like Urmstongran.
If she stopped feeding them, they’d be stuffed.

Oh ‘eck! Maybe I ought to stop! 🤣

😄😄😄😄 like me you can’t help yourself. Besides it is fun.

It is! And I can’t. 🤣
However whilst getting ready to leave just now I got to thinking. (Dangerous for me). In future if I read an article that I find of interest I think I’m going to post it in ‘Chat’ not ‘News’. Kind of less forensic, more opinion based? Like what you’d do round a table with friends “did you see such and-such in the paper/on tv this morning?” No-one ever says about your opinion ‘can you give evidence/provide a link’ there! Might be a better way forward in a gentler way to encourage more of us to just ‘chat’ about topics.

Any thoughts?

Yes good idea. But no fun. You aren’t winding anyone up are you😄😄.

Remember the “ not the politics” thread that we tried? Ended in failure.

All in all, I think that the best thing is what happens now.

Avoid the N&P thread if you hate robust debate, and continue to think what an odd lot the N&P enthusiasts are😄😄😄 I have a broad back and can happily live with that.

Bit like the politicians really, who are of course intellectually superior and we are just the hoi poloi.

It depends though doesnt it. If I came on and said I think eating cheese makes you more likely to support the monarchy then it perfectly reasonable for people to ask but is that true?

I can assure you that being ignored certainly does wind people up.

Galaxy

It depends though doesnt it. If I came on and said I think eating cheese makes you more likely to support the monarchy then it perfectly reasonable for people to ask but is that true?

That’s a brilliant thread right there Galaxy! 👑 🧀
Weave in a bit of Brexit and knitting and you’ve cracked it!

It's immaterial really whether interested folks post on N & P or not.

Sounds to me like lots really do want to. But in a gentle, non dissecting, chat sort of way.

robust debate?

Robust means strong & healthy.

There’s nothing healthy in being on the receiving end of condescending put downs.

No, I think the only way is to avoid N&P altogether.

Kandinsky

robust debate?

Robust means strong & healthy.

There’s nothing healthy in being on the receiving end of condescending put downs.

No, I think the only way is to avoid N&P altogether.

I absolutely agree

Only on gn, kandinsky. In real life I love talking about N&P.

Galaxy

It depends though doesnt it. If I came on and said I think eating cheese makes you more likely to support the monarchy then it perfectly reasonable for people to ask but is that true?

Exactly Galaxy. It is fine to have different opinions, but when someone makes a statement as if it were a proven fact, we should ask to see the evidence.

Many times in N&P threads statements which are controversial, and probably untrue, are made and the poster does not respond to a request for the statement to be substantiated.

I don't think a request to see the evidence that a claim which has been made is fact and not fiction, is harassment.

We have had a problem in recent years with some politicians, most notably Boris Johnson, having little respect for the truth, and getting away with it, but that shouldn't mean we can all just ignore facts which don't suit us. Reasonable political debate ought to be based on evidence.

dragonfly46

The clue was in the title Maizie

So, having opened the thread and seen the video, which wasn't about people like you at all, why continue to post?

varian

Galaxy

It depends though doesnt it. If I came on and said I think eating cheese makes you more likely to support the monarchy then it perfectly reasonable for people to ask but is that true?

Exactly Galaxy. It is fine to have different opinions, but when someone makes a statement as if it were a proven fact, we should ask to see the evidence.

Many times in N&P threads statements which are controversial, and probably untrue, are made and the poster does not respond to a request for the statement to be substantiated.

I don't think a request to see the evidence that a claim which has been made is fact and not fiction, is harassment.

We have had a problem in recent years with some politicians, most notably Boris Johnson, having little respect for the truth, and getting away with it, but that shouldn't mean we can all just ignore facts which don't suit us. Reasonable political debate ought to be based on evidence.

Yes

Urmstongran

Whitewavemark2

Urmstongran

MerylStreep

Not everyone has a thick skin like Urmstongran.
If she stopped feeding them, they’d be stuffed.

Oh ‘eck! Maybe I ought to stop! 🤣

😄😄😄😄 like me you can’t help yourself. Besides it is fun.

It is! And I can’t. 🤣
However whilst getting ready to leave just now I got to thinking. (Dangerous for me). In future if I read an article that I find of interest I think I’m going to post it in ‘Chat’ not ‘News’. Kind of less forensic, more opinion based? Like what you’d do round a table with friends “did you see such and-such in the paper/on tv this morning?” No-one ever says about your opinion ‘can you give evidence/provide a link’ there! Might be a better way forward in a gentler way to encourage more of us to just ‘chat’ about topics.

Any thoughts?

You can run, but you can't hide, Ug

'Some people' will find you like a shot...

I've been posting on here for a few years now, mainly on N & P, partly because I've been interested in politics since I was a teenager and joined the YCs, albeit briefly, for social reasons rather than political. As I'm now considered to be elderly or old I take a lot of notice of what is happening in the world, though mainly the UK and Europe.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to despair at the state of the UK at the moment and to hope that one day it will change. Sometimes it's hard to accept that some people still believe the government is following the right course and that everything will t urn out alright. What I do get cross about is when people post just their opinions with nothing to back them up. People who say that Brexit will be OK but don't say why. If a poster then takes issue with them, they go off in a huff and call it bullying. That is not bullying. You only have to listen to the discussions about Raab to learn what real bullying is.

MaizieD

dragonfly46

The clue was in the title Maizie

So, having opened the thread and seen the video, which wasn't about people like you at all, why continue to post?

I really don't know and have been asking myself the same question!

Chatting with friends is different, as you are thinking aloud, and can see their reactions as they happen. If you can see that someone looks upset you can pull back, and you are likely to know friends' circumstances, so will avoid topics that are too close to home. We have no idea who is reading threads on here, and there are bound to be times when we read things that make us flinch a bit, and inadvertently write things that do the same to others.

I don't think that asking for sources of information (necessarily) means that anyone feels superior, though. If someone is basing what they say on the fact that little green men are controlling the earth from a spaceship on Hampstead Heath, people really do need to ask why they think that, and if the answer is that there was an article in 'Tall Stories Weekly' about it, also need to question the validity of the source.

I agree that there is no need to be rude, and also that bickering is tedious for others reading it. It can be difficult not to respond when someone is constantly needling you though, and we are all only human.

I guess we all have different tolerances of conflict, too. Some people (a different group from Some People ) hate any hint of disagreement, whilst others revel in a good ding dong then shake hands and go home happy, and there are numerous shades of grey between the two. Also, there are those who hate being disagreed with, and see it as a personal attack when none was intended.

Anyway, I agree with WWM2 that threads about 'Some People' make me feel uneasy. I always wonder if I am one of the ones being picked on, as I do post in N&P, and I do speak my mind, and I don't change it very often. Like WWM says, I'd far rather people said so if that's the case.

Reasonable political debate ought to be based on evidence

But therein lies the problem.

All political parties offer something good to someone ( backed up by evidence )
It’s just some people can’t accept that and will try and dispute it, ( it’s lies all lies! ) and argue all day about how deluded that person is - or just how horrible they are.

Voting Tory so they pay less inheritance tax for example.