No money in Government coffers - really?

* same!

Dickens

MayBee70

I’ve never forgiven David Cameron for reading out that note from the treasury saying ‘there’s no money left’ during one of the debates because it was just left as a joke. It was spiteful imo.

... and Cameron knew it was a joke, too. He may have been out of touch (as was said of him), but he understood enough to know that people would believe it. Our 'Dave' was unscrupulous.

Do you think Starmer might not try the same tomfoolery when he is left that very sane note?

I hink that people should be aware of which of those actions were responsible, and the falsehoods told to support them so that they don't get sucked into believing and supporting them all over again.
Yes, yes, MaizieD and my DH after voting Tory all his life has come to that conclusion. He even recently wrote to our MP to tell him so.
However, what I am saying is that all the negative harping on about past falsehoods etc is no longer necessary, it is in fact counterproductive. It starts to insult one's intelligence.

Discerning previous Tory voters have already moved on, but the real problem, as with DH, is going to be to get them to actually vote at all. Instead of the constant bashing of past Tory mistakes and alienating voters, don't other parties need to actually get them on side? It's the way people try to do this, and the tone that is used, that is important and currently wrong. (Not so much in RL but on threads like on GN). People need to be gently led, but not driven to vote for a party they would never have considered doing so in the past. Drop the negative approach, try the more upbeat positive stuff.

Grantanow Can I just point out that SNP MP's and MSP's have donated every rise since to charity for over a decade

.The First Minister has has taken her salary at 2008/2009 levels, the rest is donated back into the public pot .
Taxed on her current salary before that payback and this year her donation is in the region of £27000 .I see this information has been significantly missing from this site as is the fact her TAX returns have been published showing that her job as FM is her ONLY job .
I cant see any tory red or blue doing this anytime soon .
THATS the kind of politicians I vote for

MayBee70

I’ve never forgiven David Cameron for reading out that note from the treasury saying ‘there’s no money left’ during one of the debates because it was just left as a joke. It was spiteful imo.

... and Cameron knew it was a joke, too. He may have been out of touch (as was said of him), but he understood enough to know that people would believe it. Our 'Dave' was unscrupulous.

A couple of points.

One is that it is our right to complain about aspects of our country. Being understated and underselling ourselves is what we do, among ourselves anyway. It means we are comfortable about our identity. Just let anybody from outside criticise us and it's a different story. Compare and contrast with some of those across the Atlantic (none of my American friends thank goodness) who are so unconfident about themselves that they have to keep telling themselves that America is just the biggest and best at everything. That bespeaks a pathological need for constant reassurance.

Also, this country isn't perfect and there's plenty to criticise about some of its institutions and the people who run them, and the systems that select those people to run them ensuring that there are no riff-raff involved. Also, the country really needs to come to terms with its past and how it accumulated its vast wealth – not entirely (or even mostly) out of benevolent intent as many of us were once taught and many still believe.

I know that I (English-born and Scottish domiciled) am often an outsider in these things. Every time I read or hear about what defines Englishness or (worse) Britishness and what traits 'we' demonstrate, the more convinced I become that I must be an Italian changeling. I believe stoicism and "stiff upper lips" to be emotional constipation. I hate the insidious anti-intellectuallism and suspicion of 'experts'. Far from revering the monarchy I think it's long gone time it came to an end (Never mind threats of "President Blair", I'd be perfectly comfortable with President Attenborough or President Dench doing a stint for a limited period). I don't revere the much-vaunted English countryside, I think most of it brown and muddy and beaten into submission by chemicals and overbred, overspecialised crops and livestock. I find the landscapes of France move me far more (Scotland is another matter altogether). As somebody who loves city living I also find it ironic that a country that grew immensely wealthy on industry should hide or remove its industrial legacy, preferring instead to project a bucolic hobbit-like idyll that probably never really existed. And please, don't get me started on garden centres and stately homes. I can't think of a more dismal way to spend a Sunday afternoon than traipsing round some grand pile, so I don't.

But however much I have felt a yearning for life in Puglia or Buenos Aires, I'm still here.

but the constant digging up of stuff from pre Brexit days, or from the last decade, or even from Theresa May's time, doesn't really help us to move on.

I would disagree with you there to a certain extent, Joseanne, because government actions in the past decade (+a couple of years) very much caused the situation we're now in. I think that people should be aware of which of those actions were responsible, and the falsehoods told to support them (e.g Maybee's post above), so that they don't get sucked into believing and supporting them all over again.

We really should learn from history, from actual factual history, not from the narratives spun to cover up failure.

I’ve never forgiven David Cameron for reading out that note from the treasury saying ‘there’s no money left’ during one of the debates because it was just left as a joke. It was spiteful imo.

Welcome home maddyone and I think many of us get that warm feeling circling over Heathrow to land after a period away. Our country, despite its problems, still has a lot going for it.

There have been a couple of interesting threads recently about the negativity and rudeness of a few people on political topics, but I am one who said I was grateful for explanation of certain issues along the way. I can accept there will be criticism of our present government, but the constant digging up of stuff from pre Brexit days, or from the last decade, or even from Theresa May's time, doesn't really help us to move on. I see no point in setting everything against past messes.
I look forward to threads which can see a light at the end of the tunnel, of course while pointing out wrongdoings, and which also encourage others to make carefully considered decisions for the future.

henetha

Thank goodness for Maddyone and her defence of our country. There are some posters on here who never have one single good word to say about it.
The UK is still a good place to be born and live in, in spite of all it's faults and problems.

Do you think it's the country people are criticising?

I get the impression it's the way it's being run...

Having lived abroad and traveled widely in my opinion the U.K. is still the best country in the world to live.

Governments come and go however, it’s the population that makes a country and the majority in the U.K. are bloody brilliant, kind, generous and friendly.

Thank goodness for Maddyone and her defence of our country. There are some posters on here who never have one single good word to say about it.
The UK is still a good place to be born and live in, in spite of all it's faults and problems.

The MPs have just been handed another pay rise. Look at their history of rises. Since 2010 the pay of nurses has risen by just £5,400 while MPs received a staggering £20,846 and that is on top of an already generous salary and expenses. No nurse could afford to paint a duck house even if she could afford one. MPs, especially Tories, are totally out of touch with ordinary people.

maddyone

^I have always believed in looking after your own before you dole out to strangers^

I believe that we should help other people who are in need whoever they are. There’s a parable in the Bible called the Good Samaritan which exemplifies how we should try to live. People don’t need to believe in order to understand the message which is help other people if you can.
My father wrote in my autograph book when I was a child Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. He didn’t believe in God but he believed in teaching his child compassion.

Well said, maddyone

I loved the book The Water Babies when I was a child and remember Mrs Do-As-You-Would-Be-Done-By.

Even if someone is not religious, that's a good rule for life.

And how come they can find the money to help others (Ukraine, Turkey/Syria and massive aid to India with its vast expenditure on nuclear weapons) and Hunt can't do anything to keep the energy cost down?

Sunak thinks they have been incredibly helpful already with the Energy Scheme, it seems he has no intention of helping more, in addition taxation has increased. Don’t expect any letup in this policy he has got away with it so far without major disruption, despite widespread strikes

maddyone

^I have always believed in looking after your own before you dole out to strangers^

I believe that we should help other people who are in need whoever they are. There’s a parable in the Bible called the Good Samaritan which exemplifies how we should try to live. People don’t need to believe in order to understand the message which is help other people if you can.
My father wrote in my autograph book when I was a child Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. He didn’t believe in God but he believed in teaching his child compassion.

Absolutely agree with this.

It's important to help Ukraine and Turkey/Syria but if the Tories can find money for that (which would include the massive costs of replacing fighter aircraft) why can't they find it for the NHS, education, the disabled, the probation service, care for the elderly and much else the public needs? The answer is that the Tories in power don't care about ordinary people, they just want to pay as little tax as possible, cut benefits whenever they can and tell people to prepare nutritious meals for 30p. Disgusting.

I’m glad it’s not our homeland people have a problem with because sometimes it feels like it is. Of course there’s a massive problem with the way our country is being governed at the moment, as I acknowledged that in my post above, but it will not last forever. Things will change, hopefully for the better. However dire it is, I still believe we need to help Ukraine, and now Turkey and Syria too. We would probably have not been in this situation regarding Ukraine if our previous governments had responded appropriately to the moves Putin has been making for years now, but governments wanted Russian money in London, and so we didn’t respond appropriately or effectively, and now this is where we are.
When we were returning from New Zealand last week, I was so very sad to be leaving my beloved child and grandchildren behind, but I surprised myself by how pleased and happy I was to return to my home and my country. As we circled London just before landing and I could see the well known and familiar sights, I felt quite uplifted, despite the uncertainty of the times.

maddyone

^I have always believed in looking after your own before you dole out to strangers^

I believe that we should help other people who are in need whoever they are. There’s a parable in the Bible called the Good Samaritan which exemplifies how we should try to live. People don’t need to believe in order to understand the message which is help other people if you can.
My father wrote in my autograph book when I was a child Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. He didn’t believe in God but he believed in teaching his child compassion.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. He didn’t believe in God but he believed in teaching his child compassion.

❤️️

Yes love my homeland but feel acute embarrassment at the current government. That is the asses I am talking about.

...but I dislike all the hatred expressed on Gransnet for our homeland.

I think you might find it's not our homeland that anyone has a problem with. More what its government are doing to it.

I love Britain, love England - its green and pleasant countryside - but I hate that the government are allowing its waterways to be fouled and polluted.

I love London, but hate that it has now become so expensive to buy or rent a property because house prices are kept artificially high, that it has now been socially 'cleansed' of the 'undesirables'... those undesirables who still have to work in the Capital to keep its infrastructure, its roads, streets, public buildings, commercial buildings, clean - but are not welcome to live there.

We are not obliged to be 'kind' to our government(s) - they are public servants, we pay their salaries. We have a right to be critical... especially when they behave like an executive entity running the country for their benefit and that of their wealthy donors and backers.

I have always believed in looking after your own before you dole out to strangers

I believe that we should help other people who are in need whoever they are. There’s a parable in the Bible called the Good Samaritan which exemplifies how we should try to live. People don’t need to believe in order to understand the message which is help other people if you can.
My father wrote in my autograph book when I was a child Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. He didn’t believe in God but he believed in teaching his child compassion.

... well, welcome to the libertarian free-market, small (very) sate economy.

And all those who believe (without quite knowing why) that this is the 'natural' order of 'things'... who accept that "there will always be poor people" (and frequently blame them for their poverty... that 30p they have in their purse to last over two days if spent wisely could provide them with - well, bugger all, actually.

Ideology dictates how money is spent, and on what it is spent. Growth (hi Liz!) could be achieved by investing in people and services, but the rich don't get more rich via public spending.

The very people who would benefit from public spending are - some of them - quite likely to vote for a party that, in real terms, couldn't give a hoot whether they thrive or not.

It was ever thus. I remember when I was fighting to get a school made accessible for my disabled son. No money in the coffers but you try and fight it and there is countless money to fight you with.