An article I never expected to see in the Daily Telegraph "Brexit is finally dead – and the Tory party will soon suffer the same fate"

There is a long battle to fight yet though with the hard right. People like JRM and indeed Sunak will be worse off because they will be expected to pay tax in the U.K. on offshore accounts.

Then of course there are the ideologues who regardless of what is happening to the U.K. will fight to continue outside of the EU.

I feel terribly sorry for all those who voted leave, preparing to put their faith into the individuals and promises which we understand now were lies. They have been incredibly badly let down. I know how I would feel.

Whitewavemark2 said "I feel terribly sorry for all those who voted leave, preparing to put their faith into the individuals and promises which we understand now were lies. They have been incredibly badly let down. I know how I would feel."

On a totally different topic, I know, but this is how I feel about Keir Starmer.

I am starting to agree with those who think all the parties are the same, telling people what they want to hear in order to win.

Ilovecheese

Whitewavemark2 said "I feel terribly sorry for all those who voted leave, preparing to put their faith into the individuals and promises which we understand now were lies. They have been incredibly badly let down. I know how I would feel."

On a totally different topic, I know, but this is how I feel about Keir Starmer.

I am starting to agree with those who think all the parties are the same, telling people what they want to hear in order to win.

I know exactly where you are coming from, but naively or not I am desperately hoping that Starmer will immediately start a move to closer relationship with the EU.

Frankly I don’t think he will have any other choice.

I pity all those who were misled by Johnson and Farage but I think the penny is beginning to drop. We won't rejoin but at least we can negotiate a better deal over time. It will take years to get back the advantages thrown away.

I'm surprised about the lack of comments on this story.

No Leavers denying it?

Heseltine brought up the subject brilliantly

youtu.be/6WZ1jsU-BxM

MaizieD

I'm surprised about the lack of comments on this story.

No Leavers denying it?

But Maizie- you are a remoaner and you thwarted brilliant Brexit- it's all your fault (and mine ) of course.

Articles like this are why I read newspapers from both the right and left of the political spectrum. Among all the articles you expect to see - reading about an issue from the opposing side is often insightful, you will come acrtoss surprising articles like this.

M0nica

Articles like this are why I read newspapers from both the right and left of the political spectrum. Among all the articles you expect to see - reading about an issue from the opposing side is often insightful, you will come acrtoss surprising articles like this.

Nice if you can afford all the subscriptions...

You can read quite a few of them free though to be fair MaizieD. It’s fascinating to read the Express, then the Mirror on the same topic, often you would never know it was the same topic from their takes.

Just watched the Heseltine clip. I can't write what I think about Widecombe, Tice and Oakshott. I'd be deleted. Heseltine tried very hard but I don't suppose many leavers will believe him.

Dinahmo totally agree. I was channel flipping - what a disgrace. Heseltine kept being shouted down. The so called presenters!!!!!
MaisieD we can access newspapers online through our County Library Service so perhaps checkout your library service. Loads of Magazines too..

Surely most people know that this channel is brexit central.

No informed person could ever believe that Tice and Oakshott are impartial. They are both leading members of the Leave Liars who sold our country down the pan.

varian language like the above, undermines your credibility, and plays right into the hands of Brexiteers who want to dismiss all who oppose them as Remoaners.

I suspect that there are a number of reasons for the lack of interest in this thread from those who voted leave.

I am of the opinion that most now understand the pup that they were sold, but are still not ready to make the final leap and say that they are done with the concept.

There are of course those who will cling onto the idea for a variety of reasons, most of which can never be realised, but one lives in hope.

Some of course now accept that the whole concept was based on very dodgy economics, without a shred of reality as to the real world of economic and social cooperation.

Yes I ignore the remoaners stuff and I ignore the Brexit Broadcasting stuff, it mostly comes from the same place.

We know leavers still live in lala land believing all these golden opportunities will suddenly materialise in the wonderful future. All those fabulous trade deals with far flung countries . More immigration is happening not less - is that really what leavers knew they were voting for?!

It is what it is. Constantly trying to undermine or revoke a democratic decision is foolish. Would those people that don’t agree with the results when people have voted fairly, really want a dictatorship? You either win or lose. Energies better spent trying to get things improved and work with what we have than this constant whinging of what might have been. That ships sailed.

These threads are started to goad & cause rows. Pure & simple.
They should be reported really.

Allsorts

It is what it is. Constantly trying to undermine or revoke a democratic decision is foolish. Would those people that don’t agree with the results when people have voted fairly, really want a dictatorship? You either win or lose. Energies better spent trying to get things improved and work with what we have than this constant whinging of what might have been. That ships sailed.

Because it was not 'won' fairly, and that has been proven so so many times and very clearly. And because it has turned out to be an absolute disaster, and somehow, something has to be done. Hence the private meeting the other day. This is not whinging- it is trying to find ways forwards.

Allsorts

It is what it is. Constantly trying to undermine or revoke a democratic decision is foolish. Would those people that don’t agree with the results when people have voted fairly, really want a dictatorship? You either win or lose. Energies better spent trying to get things improved and work with what we have than this constant whinging of what might have been. That ships sailed.

What if after any“democratic” decision, it is realised with awful clarity that it was a disastrous decision?

Of course with a dreadful government, we have the knowledge that they will get voted out.

But with Brexit?

What do you suggest?

Kandinsky

These threads are started to goad & cause rows. Pure & simple.
They should be reported really.

There's nothing to row about. Brexit has been a complete disaster and more and more people are realising it. I was startled that such a strongly brexit backing newspaper allowed it.

As usual, I was hoping for an account of the positive advantages it has brought us....

Yes, that boat has sailed, for all the wrong reasons, and it is heading to the rocks with us all in it - do you suggest nothing is done?

It’s not just about the hard right, even Starmer is cautious about Brexit issues, currently he has no reversing Brexit agenda. The biggest obstacle is going to be accepting their rules and standards, having maintained that throughout the Brexit negotiations we are not going to get any concessions.

It may well be that they accept us as closer partners but we live by their rules, that means any Brexit aims are abandoned.