An article I never expected to see in the Daily Telegraph "Brexit is finally dead – and the Tory party will soon suffer the same fate"

As usual, I was hoping for an account of the positive advantages it has brought us

How many times have you asked this?
100? 200?
It doesn’t matter what answers you get you’ll never be happy because you didn’t want brexit. End of.
And why are you looking for answers to this on a fairly small, not overly political, grandparents forum?
From what I’ve seen there are only about 3 people on here who voted leave.
Are you on any other larger forums where you’ll get a much larger demographic - Twitter maybe? At least on Twitter you’ll get more responses.

I voted leave because I wanted to.
That’s it.
No regrets & would vote leave again.

Only 3 will admit they voted leave the rest keep quiet.
Personally I have yet to hear any benefits or indee opportunities missed that Widdecombe was withering on about the other day.

If there were benefits or fantastic trade deals I would be first acknowledge them but all I see is smoke and mirrors.

Katie59

It’s not just about the hard right, even Starmer is cautious about Brexit issues, currently he has no reversing Brexit agenda. The biggest obstacle is going to be accepting their rules and standards, having maintained that throughout the Brexit negotiations we are not going to get any concessions.

It may well be that they accept us as closer partners but we live by their rules, that means any Brexit aims are abandoned.

Your last sentence - That's not such a bad thing. Abandon all Brexit aims.

I said it at the time, I actually cried at the time, I posted where I could and joined a vote tactically option. I shouted out that although I am old I am not a leaver. I told one and all that Johnson was a self seeking dolt who couldn’t be trusted as far as you could throw him. Result, a look of bewilderment and even pity that I was totally in the wrong. How could older people not remember what it was like before we joined the EU. They had rosy coloured memories and repeated “too many people in this country”. What the hell. As usual I blame the Daily Mail who love a cause for financial gain in selling their lousy rag. Also the rest of them. They took advantage of the less enquiring and the less informed.

Ps Starmer has got rid of Corbyn (cross fingers). He handed Johnson his massive majority.

Kandinsky

*As usual, I was hoping for an account of the positive advantages it has brought us*

How many times have you asked this?
100? 200?
It doesn’t matter what answers you get you’ll never be happy because you didn’t want brexit. End of.
And why are you looking for answers to this on a fairly small, not overly political, grandparents forum?
From what I’ve seen there are only about 3 people on here who voted leave.
Are you on any other larger forums where you’ll get a much larger demographic - Twitter maybe? At least on Twitter you’ll get more responses.

I voted leave because I wanted to.
That’s it.
No regrets & would vote leave again.

And why are you looking for answers to this on a fairly small, not overly political, grandparents forum?

On a News & Politics board I'd say that the grandparents are fairly "political" - otherwise they'd not be on it if, indeed, the 'news' bit relates to politics!

You've every right to your view and your vote to Leave. And we who didn't want to exit the EU have every right also to question the wisdom of leaving.

Had the vote gone the other way - I'm pretty sure Brexiters would be questioning the validity of remaining as an EU member in the light of global events which would've impacted us - possibly negatively or positively, or both.

Brexit is still new - we're now considering tearing up the EU regs, so discussions on its effects are inevitable - I mean the whole issue of where we go from here as a nation.

I don't think it matters how many times someone asks a question regarding Brexit benefits - because no-one is obliged to answer nor justify their decision if they don't want to. Participation is entirely voluntary.

As a Remainer, I am looking for tangible benefits from our exit. I do believe it has benefitted some, financially, but overall I cannot see that the larger population has seen much in the way of advantages. I think Rees-Mogg was probably correct when he suggested that those advantages / benefits might take decades to materialise. He was one of the architects of Brexit so probably does have some insight.

But I think if you are expecting or hoping that Remainers will quietly accept Brexit - well, it's not going to happen. After all, we are where we are now because Eurosceptics kept digging away after the '75 referendum - they did not 'accept' the result and finally got it reversed. Our 'campaign' - if that is the right word - is no different. Nothing is ever set in stone for eternity in politics... who knows where we'll be 10 -50 years down the line?

In the final analysis I believe it will be economics that decide the fate of the country - that's usually the bottom line and the reason we became a member of the EU. I have doubts we'll ever re-join, but I think a closer relationship with the EU is inevitable at some point. A trade 'war' with Europe is not going to benefit us economically, and that will ultimately be the deciding factor IMO whichever government is in power.

I never thought I would read such good news in the Telegraph!

Kandinsky

*As usual, I was hoping for an account of the positive advantages it has brought us*

How many times have you asked this?
100? 200?
It doesn’t matter what answers you get you’ll never be happy because you didn’t want brexit. End of.
And why are you looking for answers to this on a fairly small, not overly political, grandparents forum?
From what I’ve seen there are only about 3 people on here who voted leave.
Are you on any other larger forums where you’ll get a much larger demographic - Twitter maybe? At least on Twitter you’ll get more responses.

I voted leave because I wanted to.
That’s it.
No regrets & would vote leave again.

If you have no regrest and you would vote leave again- then surely, you must be able to come up with some reasons, some advantages. And so far, you haven't. So it make no sense, no sense whatsover. So yes, some of us will keep asking anyone who states the above. Very fair.

Apologies for typos!

Kandinsky

*As usual, I was hoping for an account of the positive advantages it has brought us*

How many times have you asked this?
100? 200?
It doesn’t matter what answers you get you’ll never be happy because you didn’t want brexit. End of.
And why are you looking for answers to this on a fairly small, not overly political, grandparents forum?
From what I’ve seen there are only about 3 people on here who voted leave.
Are you on any other larger forums where you’ll get a much larger demographic - Twitter maybe? At least on Twitter you’ll get more responses.

I voted leave because I wanted to.
That’s it.
No regrets & would vote leave again.

There are FAR MORE than 3 Leave voters on GNet. There were loads of them rampaging all over the politics threads 7 years ago telling us how wonderful it was all going to be and to suck it up because we lost.

What is it about life in the UK today that convinces you that there is nothing to regret about your vote?

Nobody needs to tell anyone anything! Good grief.

I voted to Remain. I have friends and relatives who mainly voted Remain but a few voted to leave. We're all on brilliant terms with each other.

To be honest I did vote Remain, however reading some of the supercilious, snobbish comments made across social media by Remainers it makes me think I should have voted to leave.

So much nastiness. Oh Brexit voters are thick, they are old they are northern ... these comments are not from GN but I've heard similar ... it's awful!

Comments about how the Brexit voters were taken in by a bus and lies from Boris etc etc

Are none of you aware that there has been anti-EU sentiment for years? Decades! There was the Referendum Party in the 90s.

Society will get on with life as it's doing.

Brexit has been and gone.

Brexit has not been and gone. It is neither here nor there. It will never be done. It is ruining our economy and it will get worse.

It's one of those situations where OK some voted for Brexit for some less than wholesome reasons... But many others voted for what they were told would be of benefit to them and others by jovial charismatic politicians who should never have aspired to more than being that bloke down the pub who is a likeable sort but he'll have you buying all his beers and steal your peanuts.

Truth now though, I don't have any energy for "I told you so" and I definitely don't have energy to argue about it.

We are going to have to work together now and make some better choices... I just wish there were more choices

Zoejory, it is fair to ask someone who has made a decision which affects us all, in a disastrous way, and who says they would make the same decision again- come what may- to ask for their reasoning. And to cite any gains or advantages that decision has brought. Totally fair. Of course, someone, or a group, can again and again, refuse to answer- but then it is totally fair to question why.

This especially as the whole country, with us in it - is going down the chute at break-neck speed.

VioletSky

It's one of those situations where OK some voted for Brexit for some less than wholesome reasons... But many others voted for what they were told would be of benefit to them and others by jovial charismatic politicians who should never have aspired to more than being that bloke down the pub who is a likeable sort but he'll have you buying all his beers and steal your peanuts.

Truth now though, I don't have any energy for "I told you so" and I definitely don't have energy to argue about it.

We are going to have to work together now and make some better choices... I just wish there were more choices

But many others voted for what they were told would be of benefit to them and others by jovial charismatic politicians who should never have aspired to more than being that bloke down the pub who is a likeable sort

... but he'll have you buying all his beers and steal your peanuts.

😂😂

That made m LOL!

To be honest I did vote Remain, however reading some of the supercilious, snobbish comments made across social media by Remainers it makes me think I should have voted to leave.

... did you also read those comments where 'Remoaners' were accused of treachery - outright called traitors; told to get over it you lost;... or the gloating over ^Remoaner tears? The accusations that we were losers - sometimes accompanied with an appropriate emoji? Or being told to go and live in the EU if you love it so much and even good riddance, our country doesn't need you and your ilk. One male poster told me I should STFU - perused my FB profile and made personal comments about my appearance.

The nastiness was not one-sided.

This controversy will not go away. It is becoming clear that there is now a majority who think that the Brexit that was negotiated by Johnson's team was flawed and not the Brexit they thought they had voted for - whatever that might have been, since it was never made clear what the aim really was.
The demographic has changed, with the newer generation replacing the old. I feel very sorry for the young who have been deprived of the opportunities we enjoyed, not only as students and tourists but also for work and as entrepreneurs. My late DH was an engineer and OEM (original equipment manufacturer) whose products were exported worldwide but mainly to the EU. He was heartily relieved that he didn't have to cope with the difficulties experienced by the companies which took on his designs.
Oh and by the way I was a teacher of French and German. Languages were perceived as relevant before Brexit, but the take-up is now minimal. So our country becomes evermore inward-looking and narrow.
I could go on - about the shortage of labour, the lack of inward investment, the loss of research opportunities.
I blame Cameron for pandering to UKIP and holding the referendum. At the very least, for such a seismic issue, there should have been a majority of 60% in favour of leaving. The Remain campaign was poor, too.
Sir Kier Starmer, I hope you are making it clear to Brussels that you are hoping they will be sympathetic to change.

Sir Kier Starmer, I hope you are making it clear to Brussels that you are hoping they will be sympathetic to change.

The EU is neutral , its their club, if we want to be more involved it will be to their rules.

The EU is neutral , its their club, if we want to be more involved it will be to their rules.

Nothing wrong with that, Katie59. Especially as we were instrumental in making many of them...

I get the feeling that, behind the scenes, Starmer has been keeping close to the EU.

It will be much easier for KS to negotiate as he can truly and honestly say 'I was not part of this mess'.

Negotiations with the EU will be a lot easier than convincing leavers they were wrong.

Just googled; ‘Kier Starmer & Brexit’ & this came up.

Starmer has promised over the past year that Labour will “make Brexit work” if it wins the next election.

He has ruled out any reversal of Brexit or the changes to the U.K.’s subsequent trade deal with the EU, while also vowing to pursue similar regulatory changes promised by the government for the financial services industry.

Touching on his previous support for staying in the EU, Starmer said he was “always making the argument that there was always something very important sitting behind that leave vote.”

Interesting.

Kandinsky

Just googled; ‘Kier Starmer & Brexit’ & this came up.

Starmer has promised over the past year that Labour will “make Brexit work” if it wins the next election.

He has ruled out any reversal of Brexit or the changes to the U.K.’s subsequent trade deal with the EU, while also vowing to pursue similar regulatory changes promised by the government for the financial services industry.

Touching on his previous support for staying in the EU, Starmer said he was “always making the argument that there was always something very important sitting behind that leave vote.”

Interesting.

I’m unclear on what point you’re making Kandinsky, because this isn’t new news. Do you mean you’ll be voting Labour next time because you agree with Sir Keir?

Well reading some of the comments on this thread you’d think KS was going to do his best to reverse brexit if he wins the next election.

He won’t.

Kandinsky

Well reading some of the comments on this thread you’d think KS was going to do his best to reverse brexit if he wins the next election.

He won’t.

You are right. That will not be an option for some time. Starmer understands that, because he has close contact with Brussels.