Starmer's speach this morning

Casdon

Glorianny

The evidence

And? How does that prove that Labour would have won?

What it shows Casdon is that a significant section of the party were working against the leadership. Now you can say that didn't make a difference, but even the possibility that it did blows holes in the assertion that left wing policies can't win elections. Because the most left wing faction Labour have had for 50 years almost won. So why is Starmer not pursuing policies which are at least slightly left leaning?
As I said Labour will win. Sadly they will do little to change things and any changes they make will be quickly eliminated by the next Tory government. And we will finish up in a worse position than we are today.

I bet you cheat at cards or other games Glorianny; you seem to have a distant relationship with the truth. Please tell me where the original of your quote, that the UK was a "nearly communist country", can be found.

Perhaps someone should have explained that when you put quotes around words, they should be the exact ones used. They could have then shown you how to cut and paste so it was not another lie.

Glorianny

The evidence

And? How does that prove that Labour would have won?

It looks like Labour will win big next time so we needn’t be concerned about past general elections or Corbyn.
Most voters aren’t interested in politics but know that things aren’t right now and over the last ten years either.
Starmer may not please everyone but that’s ok.

hallgreenmiss

Fleurpepper

I wish she'd get on a bike, with a turnip stuck where the sun don't shine!

😂🤣

I got into trouble 2 days ago for inciting violence. Someone had made a comment about her not looking like Marie-Antoinette, and I replied o*f w*th h*r he*d - they said I was inciting violence.

The evidence

Glorianny

Galaxy

Well partly because it was the worst campaign I have ever seen by the Tories, it was spectacularly bad. The labour party should have won against such a terrible campaign.

Perhaps they would have if there hadn't been unelected LP officials working behind the scenes diverting money from marginal seats.

No, they wouldn’t have been elected, regardless. This is now the old chestnut in the left’s armoury, which I expect you’ll still be repeating in 10 years time - that doesn’t make it true.

Fleurpepper

I wish she'd get on a bike, with a turnip stuck where the sun don't shine!

😂🤣

Germanshepherdsmum

He’s good at saying what people want to hear. Whether and how he could make good on the rhetoric is another matter.

Hmm, sounds familiar

Galaxy

Well partly because it was the worst campaign I have ever seen by the Tories, it was spectacularly bad. The labour party should have won against such a terrible campaign.

Perhaps they would have if there hadn't been unelected LP officials working behind the scenes diverting money from marginal seats.

Well partly because it was the worst campaign I have ever seen by the Tories, it was spectacularly bad. The labour party should have won against such a terrible campaign.

What really happened in 2017, with people in the LP office actively working against the party
Opinion polls had consistently shown strong leads for the Conservatives over Labour. From a 21-point lead, the Conservatives' lead began to diminish in the final weeks of the campaign. The Conservative Party returned 317 MPs—a net loss of 13 seats relative to 2015—despite winning 42.4% of the vote (its highest share of the vote since 1983), whereas the Labour Party made a net gain of 30 seats with 40.0% (its highest vote share since 2001, representing its highest increase in vote share between two general elections since 1945). It was the first election since 1997 in which the Tories made a net loss of seats or Labour a net gain of seats. The election had the closest result between the two major parties since February 1974 and resulted in their highest combined vote share since 1970
So it wasn't that the electorate didn't want a left wing government. It was very much that the right wing of the LP didn't want a left wing government.

You misunderstand me, Glorianny. There is not ‘no’ support for left wing policies, just not enough to ever get a government with a left wing agenda into power. At last Labour are going in the right direction, with moderate policies that will be palatable to the majority. We’ve been there a hundred times regarding Corbyn, he wasn’t elected and never would have been, because he wasn’t trusted by the electorate. Yes, of course the media played a part, as they will in trying to prevent any Labour Government being elected because it doesn’t suit their agenda.
The current round of strikes is not because workers are left wing. Public sector workers are striking because they quite rightly feel they have been shafted by the current government - that doesn’t mean they would vote for a left wing government, but there’s a very good chance they will vote for what Starmer is offering.

Galaxy

In fact I work with lots of teachers who will be striking this week, most are fairly non party political actually, but many are centrists, lib dem, etc.

You mean there are still LIb-dems around!!

In fact I work with lots of teachers who will be striking this week, most are fairly non party political actually, but many are centrists, lib dem, etc.

Galaxy

I think people who are striking will hold a variety of political views, some of them shock horror may even have voted conservative.

Of course they might. But would they admit it now?

I think people who are striking will hold a variety of political views, some of them shock horror may even have voted conservative.

Casdon

Isn’t the point that left wing voters or politicians will never get us anywhere Glorianny, simply because people won’t vote for them?
The implication that anybody who isn’t left wing has no social conscience is completely flawed though, particularly when you are referring to people who will vote Labour now, but are more moderate in their views than you yourself are.

Casdon that is a fallacy largely maintained by a right wing press. If the whole of the LP had been behind Corbyn in 2017 he might well have been PM. As it is a number of officials in LP headquarters undermined him, diverted funds from marginal constituencies and generally enabled the coalition government to take power. Those officials were reinstated and compensated by Starmer. It really isn't right to think that there isn't support for left wing policies. Why do you think so many people are out on strike? because they are right wing or centrist?

Isn’t the point that left wing voters or politicians will never get us anywhere Glorianny, simply because people won’t vote for them?
The implication that anybody who isn’t left wing has no social conscience is completely flawed though, particularly when you are referring to people who will vote Labour now, but are more moderate in their views than you yourself are.

I just like the concept that after the war the UK was a "nearly communist country". I wonder if some people have never met or discussed matters with a real communist.
I was thinking about the country I grew up in the other day and the society which was established after the war. Where healthcare was free, education was respected and aspirational and working people were being lifted out of poverty. It didn't happen over night but by the 60s we were developing a social conscience and plays like "Cathy come home" showed we cared about homelessness and the families who suffered. How we got from there to here, with foodbanks, homeless families, nurses and doctors needing to strike I'm not sure. But one thing I am certain of. It wasn't left wing voters or politicians who got us here.

I like him. I'm confused by the comments about his personality - who cares if he is boring. He is a politician not an x factor contestant

Thanks for your 2.44 post DaisyAnne. You’ve helped cheer me after all the anti Blair. Anti StArmer nonsense
‘Some posters’ would rather see more years of tories destroying our country thsn accept their views are minority. Labour needs the majority with it or it will be 2019 agsin

varian

In the USA the words "communist", "socialist" and "liberal" are all interchangeable terms of abuse, whilst those who are quite far right by any standards refer to themselves as "the centre ground".

Some here are much the same.

Yes I think that is right.

In the USA the words "communist", "socialist" and "liberal" are all interchangeable terms of abuse, whilst those who are quite far right by any standards refer to themselves as "the centre ground".

Some here are much the same.

Corbyn and Foot were certainly not middle of the road, they certainly got run over.

Blair, the only Labour leader to win three consecutive general
elections.