So letting in a bit of reality - does this mean it is the beginning of the end of Brexit

Nothing wrong in being disappointed with the result, but lots wrong with calling leave voters ‘thick racists’ ( & worse )

So yes, you lost - get over it. I mean come on, it’s been 7 years since the referendum & the same old stuff is still being said.

HousePlantQueen

varian

I have never heard any gloating about being right.

Only sadness and sometimes anger about what we have lost by the power of lies.

Well, I read lots of gloating about being right on GN, plenty of posters telling those of us disappointed at the result that:

we lost, get over it
if we liked EU so much, why didn't we move there
we were traitors
it was all going to be wonderful

It was not pleasant.

... "traitors".

That angered me more than any other abuse or insult.

If you believe your county is better off, better placed on the world stage - more respected, by being a member of the EU, how can you possibly be a traitor? It's not even logical.

The treachery lays fair and square on those high-profile politicians and others who conducted a campaign of lies and deliberate misinformation, and manipulated the genuine fears and worries of those that they themselves have disenfranchised through their greed and megalomania, and their total lack of integrity.

The same old stuff has now been proven to be correct.

Brexit is an utter disaster- the worst thing that has happened to our country in my lifetime.

If you were partly responsible you should wake up to the evidence and hang your head in shame.

Kandinsky

Nothing wrong in being disappointed with the result, but lots wrong with calling leave voters ‘thick racists’ ( & worse )

So yes, you lost - get over it. I mean come on, it’s been 7 years since the referendum & the same old stuff is still being said.

Depends if they are. Some are, some are not. Some are one, and not the other.

Kandinsky

Nothing wrong in being disappointed with the result, but lots wrong with calling leave voters ‘thick racists’ ( & worse )

So yes, you lost - get over it. I mean come on, it’s been 7 years since the referendum & the same old stuff is still being said.

I don't recall anyone saying that Leave voters were 'thick racists',, Kandinsky.

We did point out that statistics showed that more of them had lower educational achievement than did the Remain demography and that racists tended to vote Leave. It was entirely up to the individual to decide whether or not they were one, or both, or neither.

Of course, it's been seven years since the referendum and we're still waiting to find out what the benefits have been.

And, having watched the UK deteriorate over that period, we don't feel too happy at what has been done to us.

Not 'just' us, by our ACs and GCs- and even more importantly our amazing country.

MaizieD

Kandinsky

Nothing wrong in being disappointed with the result, but lots wrong with calling leave voters ‘thick racists’ ( & worse )

So yes, you lost - get over it. I mean come on, it’s been 7 years since the referendum & the same old stuff is still being said.

I don't recall anyone saying that Leave voters were 'thick racists',, Kandinsky.

We did point out that statistics showed that more of them had lower educational achievement than did the Remain demography and that racists tended to vote Leave. It was entirely up to the individual to decide whether or not they were one, or both, or neither.

MaizieD - that comment has been tried before, was offensive then and is offensive still. Grow up.

Yes, it is 7 years since the vote. Other than the fact we’ve had two years of COVID to disrupt any ongoing process, it was the will of the majority that moves forward. Grow up.

Such a typical Leaver comment, ENO...

Whitewavemark2

I reckon that both Sunak and Starmer if he gets into power, will slowly but surely begin to negotiate closer relations with the EU.

Yes, I think so. On sensible trade/customs and hopefully Erasmus.

I think what's happening in Ukraine has made a difference. Knowing we need to stand together has eased previous tensions.

The counters and shelves were groaning with fresh fruit and veg and also meat and fish. Several varieties of apples and tomatoes

Same here this morning - in Sainsbury’s, Urmston Dinahmo! Truly.

😁

We will slide back and be part of the EU sooner rather than later I feel sure now. Especially under Starmer and Labour. I can read the writing on the wall. So be it. Brexit was never even properly attempted. There were so many factors working against it. (The Civil Service, the HoC and all those bluddy ‘indicative votes’ that tied us in knots, got us precisely nowhere and hampered our negotiating strengths). As time goes on I’ve become disillusioned by it all. I regard it as a missed opportunity. ‘Recollections may vary’ of course.
😁

Siope apologies from me. I said last night I’d get back to you and didn’t. Your well structured dissertation would take some dismantling. At one time, years ago, I’d have had the energy and enthusiasm to tackle it - but tonight, it just seems a mountain to climb. And anyway, who cares really? Minds have been made up, lines are drawn and in weariness I think I shall just have to politely agree to disagree.

I think the problem for me is how the title of this thread is laid out.

Like, either we "Rejoin" in some way, or all will "slip back"

I don't see it as an either/or. We aren't in the EU, but we can have the most appropriate relationships that best suit the needs of the UK now, 2023, years now after the vote, after any lessons learnt, different social and economic circumstances.

Kandinsky

Nothing wrong in being disappointed with the result, but lots wrong with calling leave voters ‘thick racists’ ( & worse )

So yes, you lost - get over it. I mean come on, it’s been 7 years since the referendum & the same old stuff is still being said.

I rest my case. Oh and I never called anyone a thick racist, not language I would use.

Kandinski

As you are such an ardent Brexiteer perhaps you can list the benefits of leaving the EU.

The counters were groaning because the growing countries hadn’t been hit by a succession of bad weather. That’s fact.

Wyllow3 - exactly. We can never go back to things past. I fail to understand why this can’t be seen.

We can never go back to things past.

This is true - and I think most temain-minded people would agree with you, ENO. Those days of special concessions are unlikely to come round again.

However the days of the Empire won't come round again either... And that is a goid thing.

I think it likely that we will in the end make closer trading arrangements and a degree of freedom of movement that may resemble the past but that isn't a return to the EU. whatever is needful for businesses and our population. Son is uni lecturer and very keen we rejoin Erasmus, so much good work being done including in the fields of advancing medical knowledge. I also am keen on retaining ECHR.

ExperiencedNotOld I'm in the L Party and that is our POV.

It won’t be possible for the U.K. to be a full member for at the very least a decade, but I am content for the U.K. to act like a mature neighbour and work much closer with the EU in all possible areas.

I think history will eventually show that this decade was a total aberration when for some obscure reason the voting population were like rabbits caught in the populists headlights.

The U.K. has never been so extreme in its politics and I would very much like to see it back to its centre right/ centre left boring self🙂

Urms, no need to apologise - you’re not obliged to answer any of my posts!

To others: yes, we lost. No, I won’t make any effort to get over it, why would I? Change doesn’t come from accepting things that one genuinely believes is wrong. I’m taking the Eurosceptics, who never stopped banging on and taking disruptive action ;and still haven’t) as my model. Sauce for the goose, and all that.

Urmstongran

^The counters and shelves were groaning with fresh fruit and veg and also meat and fish. Several varieties of apples and tomatoes^

Same here this morning - in Sainsbury’s, Urmston Dinahmo! Truly.

😁

That's good - but have there been periods of empty fresh food shelves? None here.

ExperiencedNotOld

The counters were groaning because the growing countries hadn’t been hit by a succession of bad weather. That’s fact.

But in France, like in the UK, green beans come from Morocco (snow) and tomatoes and cucumbers from Spain (snow). There has been bad weather but it hasn't affected the supplies to France.

There's always snow in Morocco at this time of the year - on the tops of the Atlas Mountains for example. The extreme weather conditions were in the Ouarzazate province which is in the east - the gateway to the desert and often used as film locations. It's always very cold there in the winter.

On the other hand, most food production is in the rainy northwest and along the Atlantic coastline.

The problems with supply of salad vegetables has been caused by the high energy costs for heating the poly tunnels - in Holland for example.

ExperiencedNotOld

MaizieD

Kandinsky

Nothing wrong in being disappointed with the result, but lots wrong with calling leave voters ‘thick racists’ ( & worse )

So yes, you lost - get over it. I mean come on, it’s been 7 years since the referendum & the same old stuff is still being said.

I don't recall anyone saying that Leave voters were 'thick racists',, Kandinsky.

We did point out that statistics showed that more of them had lower educational achievement than did the Remain demography and that racists tended to vote Leave. It was entirely up to the individual to decide whether or not they were one, or both, or neither.

MaizieD - that comment has been tried before, was offensive then and is offensive still. Grow up.

Yes, it is 7 years since the vote. Other than the fact we’ve had two years of COVID to disrupt any ongoing process, it was the will of the majority that moves forward. Grow up.

Grow up x 2, and you complain about people being offensive!

It was not the will of the majority to have a very hard extreme Brexit. And it seems quite clear now that the tiny majority was based on fraudulent lies.

Other countries were affected by Covid you know, and the war in Ukraine leading up to energy price rises. Only the UK is doing so badly. Do you really believe that is a fluke. I am tempted to end up as you did, but won't.

It is certainly NOT the will of the majority NOW, that is absolutely 100% sure.