New immigration bill - how on earth will it work?

It really would be helpful if people used verifiable facts when discussing immigration.

Indeed it would.

Germanshepherdsmum

Casdon

Yes
www.redcross.org.uk/stories/migration-and-displacement/refugees-and-asylum-seekers/5-reasons-people-cross-the-channel

I read the word ‘many’ Casdon, not ‘most’.

The Red Cross is pretty close I think that around 50% trying to cross the channel have got family in the UK
They do not distinguish between Asylum Seekers and Economic Migrants, probably most of the economic migrants do have family contacts in the UK

As far as I understand it, the government does not collect official statistics on how many migrants have family already in the UK, or speak English, so the only option to find the information is via agencies like the Red Cross. You can split hairs if you want, but you can’t prove that what I said is any less accurate than what you said I don’t think - if you can, I’d love to see it.

In the meantime this makes a fascinating read, I’d recommend it Germanshepherdsmum.
publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmhaff/706/report.html

So, to pick up your point earlier, are you in agreement that the circa 50% who have family here should be considered as legitimate asylum seekers -or not, or only if they speak English as well?

I stayed in a huge hotel recently and could hear all the doctors and architects fighting at four in the morning

I've met asylum seekers. Some of them were highly qualified. Some of them spoke excellent English. Some of them volunteered with different organisations because they are not allowed to work. Most of them wanted to work. They would take any job until their application was processed and their qualifications are recognised. Many of the local restaurants and hotels have said they would employ asylum seekers. They say the majority of their employees are temporary anyway so it would fit in with their needs.. It would enable asylum seekers to have their own money and cease to be an expense. They would pay taxes. They would also learn and improve their English. It would be easy to do with temporary working permits.
The idea that we don't have jobs for these people is false. Hospitality needs them, farmers and market gardens need them many other low paid jobs need them. Only an intransigent government is stoping it happening.

Germanshepherdsmum

Indeed it would.

So why don't you make a start?

I shall await your lead growstuff. I could offer an anecdotal story but better not.

Anyone watching the debate?

Braverman managing to fit a lie into every sentence, and consistently equating asylum seekers and economic migration; Yvette Cooper’s response picks up the points about cost - she says £25bn every 5 years, presumably based on 45k asylum seekers pa - in perpetuity since nobody will be processed or therefore returned. She also made the point I did several pages ago about slavery, and Theresa May, who introduced the Modern Slavery Act, is absolutely on fire.

Bloody Bill will still pass, but it’s good to see a few Tories have a conscience.

I'm following Ian Dunt (columnist for The i) who is live tweeting it.

Is he swearing a lot yet? I love him.

All the Albanians could go back for a start. Albania is safe and they will take them. No one should be running round UK without paperwork, Identity cards should be compulsory, I don’t mind. If you are in threat of your life and come in illegally, your duty is to tell the authority who bought you in. If conservative handle this I might vote for them next time. It’s naive to think we don’t have to get tough and employ conditions if settlement.

Siope

Is he swearing a lot yet? I love him.

Not yet. But being rude, of course.

Said that Cooper's and May's speeches were excellent.

I love him, too

He's posted a couple of photos of the demo outside Parliament. It looks well attended.

All the Albanians could go back for a start. Albania is safe and they will take them.

You will, no doubt, be furious to hear that some Albanians are actually granted asylum.

Can't send them back until they've been sorted.

Albanian Kurds are persecuted.
Its important to understand its not a "one size fits all".'

I was sidetracked by Only Connect. I gather someone from the DUP made a sensible intervention, which I have to admit surprises me.

Allsorts, I think you are going to be very disappointed in the actual effects of this legislation.

Germanshepherdsmum

I shall await your lead growstuff. I could offer an anecdotal story but better not.

No, not anecdotes, but dealing with facts (and the law as it stands) would be helpful.

And leaving hyperbole to the red tops.

If it works and the boats stop, if they inject more money into our armed forces and actually listen to them and treat them with respect I will vote for them.

The Labour Party, the Lib Dems and SNP all voted AGAINST trying to stop illegal migration into the UK last night.

Disgraceful, let's remember this when voting again.

Allsorts

If it works and the boats stop, if they inject more money into our armed forces and actually listen to them and treat them with respect I will vote for them.

It isn't going to work, Allsorts, any more than any of their previous legislation has worked. A year ago the Rwanda scheme was trumpeted as being a solution to all the problems. Has even one single person been removed to Rwanda? Of course not.

It is possible that this bill might not even become law before the next general election; the House of Lords will hold it up for a long time, potentially it could be for a year..

Even if it made it into law there would be so many appeals and test cases that it would be completely at a standstill.

The only purpose of this bill is to get votes for the tories. They are banking on the racists and xenophobes not actually noticing that it doesn't work...

Allsorts

If it works and the boats stop, if they inject more money into our armed forces and actually listen to them and treat them with respect I will vote for them.

But there is absolutely no guarantee that any boats will stop. The traffickers will do what they've always done, which is to land on deserted beaches. Their passengers will be told to keep their heads down and not to apply for asylum. Maybe they'll even have a "job" lined up for them. What the poor sods don't realise is that they'll probably be caught and deported permanently.

Meanwhile, the traffickers will have no problems finding new customers and the boats will continue - just maybe a bit better hidden.

If you really are concerned about the well-being of genuine asylum seekers, you need to support safe routes.

Maudi

The Labour Party, the Lib Dems and SNP all voted AGAINST trying to stop illegal migration into the UK last night.

Disgraceful, let's remember this when voting again.

Excellent!

I'll certainly remember it! :-)

(Not that any of those parties are against trying to control immigration.)

So the Tories voted to effectively close the asylum process yesterday.

Maudi did you not see that 44 Tories did not support the bill, that several spoke of their reservations.Robert Buckland said this morning " I think a lot of us who decided the principle of the bill to go forward were doing so on the basis that this bill would need further work."Teresa May spoke very strongly about her reservations .It's worth looking at what she said
.It seems without a lot of redrafting that this bill will not go forward. Let's hope not.