New immigration bill - how on earth will it work?

I am appalled at the out and out racist comments and am wondering if they are wind-ups, so many sweeping statements about "most people", "they"etc .
Where do you get it from Maudi?

09:59Whitewavemark2

Maudi

British woman who fostered Afghan migrant, 28, who was deported after raping 12-year-old girl tells him NOT to come back as he tries to smuggle himself back across the Channel
Copied from the Daily Mail today.

Coming to a town near you, your daughters and granddaughters if we don't Stop The Boats.

Gary Lineker is right isnt he?

Gary Lineker is irrelevant in my opinion why would anyone with any sense take any notice of him an overpaid football pundit for goodness sake.

No condemnation by you I see or other left leaning posters for the 12 year old girl who was raped or for her family.

Lineker’s latest tweet

“A final thought: however difficult the last few days have been, it simply doesn’t compare to having to flee your home from persecution or war to seek refuge in a land far away. It’s heartwarming to have seen the empathy towards their plight from so many of you.

We remain a country of predominantly tolerant, welcoming and generous people. Thank you. ❤️

Heartwarming isn’t it?

Maudi

09:59Whitewavemark2

Maudi

British woman who fostered Afghan migrant, 28, who was deported after raping 12-year-old girl tells him NOT to come back as he tries to smuggle himself back across the Channel
Copied from the Daily Mail today.

Coming to a town near you, your daughters and granddaughters if we don't Stop The Boats.

Gary Lineker is right isnt he?

Gary Lineker is irrelevant in my opinion why would anyone with any sense take any notice of him an overpaid football pundit for goodness sake.

No condemnation by you I see or other left leaning posters for the 12 year old girl who was raped or for her family.

What is it that you don’t understand about one case not proving your point?
The rape of any girl or woman is a tragedy, how dare you conflate the issues and imply that you have the moral high ground when in one sentence you have condemned thousands of people because one did something wrong?

Were the conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria not wars too, two of which we were involved in. The way we left Afghanistan was disgraceful, and those left there are in fear for their lives with no hope of ever getting out.

Have you ever actually spoken to any refugees? Heard their stories?
Or is your information all gleaned from the DM and it’s ilk which can never be relied on for anything other than scaring the bejesus out of its readers.

Skydancer

What is the population of this country likely to be in 20, 50 or 100 years time? Our towns and cities are overcrowded now. We have a housing shortage. It can be hard to see a GP. The NHS is overstretched. Surely any immigration can only make this all so much worse. When does this situation come to an end? When do we say enough is enough?

When we stop voting for governments which regard public services and the NHS as unnecessary. The crisis in education and the NHS is not the fault of immigrants, it is the fault of chronic underfunding. Years ago the Tories told people austerity was necessary and they were the only people who could handle the economy and they were believed. Now that policy has failed and impacted peoples' lives they tell them it is the fault of illegal immigrants. It is plainly and obviously the fault of Tory policies.

Oh and by the way, with the proviso that the report that an Afghan raped a 12 year old is indeed true, bearing in mind that the Daily Mail is not considered a newspaper well known for the truth

I do indeed condemn rape whenever it occurs and think it should be met with suitable punishment, as this was apparently done nearly 10 years ago.

As for a 28 year old ‘foster child’ 🤔

Not 28 at time of fostering obviously.

Of course but was quoting the poster.

If correct and he was in care that would make him a child when any offence took place which is generally treated slightly differently. No excuse of course, there never is.

The argument relating to the Afghan is of course nonsensical.

Doctors, nurses and architects are not coming in on boats. Also don't their own counties need doctors etc. Did our men after our last war not bother coming home? Did they leave for somewhere better?

Biscuitmuncher

Doctors, nurses and architects are not coming in on boats. Also don't their own counties need doctors etc. Did our men after our last war not bother coming home? Did they leave for somewhere better?

Entirely factually incorrect. Asylum seekers of all professions and trades are arriving in boats - there is no other way to get to the U.K.

silverlining48

Were the conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria not wars too, two of which we were involved in. The way we left Afghanistan was disgraceful, and those left there are in fear for their lives with no hope of ever getting out.

Have you ever actually spoken to any refugees? Heard their stories?
Or is your information all gleaned from the DM and it’s ilk which can never be relied on for anything other than scaring the bejesus out of its readers.

Well said, SL48.

Further up Biscuitmuncher says people aren't coming here because they want to give us something. They're here to take. They're not willing to make their own countries somewhere worth living

I just wonder how you picture the process of leaving your home for ever, your former life and people you love, scratching together whatever you can carry.
Do you wake up one morning and think 'Oh the house needs painting/the town looks untidy/there are queues at the hospital/I don't like the school my children go to. I know what, I'll leave here and go to a country where milk and honey flows and will expect the people there to provide me with everything I want!'?

What would make YOU leave home and spend months, years in danger, seeing so many people dying and suffering along the way, worrying about the people you had to leave behind in that dangerous place, as they were too old, too young, pregnant or vulnerable to be able to make such a harsh journey?
What would make YOU set off on such an incredibly difficult road to try to find SOMEWHERE you could bring them to, at huge risk to your life?
In your own beloved country, there may be war; torture and death for your religious views, or sexual orientation.

You don't just set off for the hell of it.

11:01Biscuitmuncher

"Doctors, nurses and architects are not coming in on boats. Also don't their own counties need doctors etc. Did our men after our last war not bother coming home? Did they leave for somewhere better?"

Precisely Biscuitmuncher obviously these illegals aren't bothered about their country of birth their women and children they just want to game the system and pay the people smugglers thousands of pounds to get here. Seems to me some posters support the smuggler gangs and are quite happy for this practise to carry on.

choughdancer a lot of them could fly here with passports but they know they wouldn't be allowed in. That's why they come on boats illegally. Whitewavemark2 could I just rock up in Australia and expect to be housed and fed? We apparently need doctors from abroad to treat the foreigners here illegally who we all need to pay for

choughdancer Today 11.34
"What would make YOU leave home and spend months, years in danger, seeing so many people dying and suffering along the way, worrying about the people you had to leave behind in that dangerous place, as they were too old, too young, pregnant or vulnerable to be able to make such a harsh journey?
What would make YOU set off on such an incredibly difficult road to try to find SOMEWHERE you could bring them to, at huge risk to your life?
In your own beloved country, there may be war; torture and death for your religious views, or sexual orientation.

You don't just set off for the hell of it."

Plenty of counties on the way to the UK they could settle without having to pay thousands to people smugglers, what's wrong with the EU Germany, France. Most on the small boats are from Albania, I could book a holiday there tomorrow beautiful place but they choose to pay thousands to the smuggler gangs why? You don't need to be a rocket scientist to answer that one.

Biscuitmuncher

choughdancer a lot of them could fly here with passports but they know they wouldn't be allowed in. That's why they come on boats illegally. Whitewavemark2 could I just rock up in Australia and expect to be housed and fed? We apparently need doctors from abroad to treat the foreigners here illegally who we all need to pay for

I’m not sure it’s good form to quote my own posts but see below from my earlier post on why asylum seekers don’t come by plane or other carriers.

PS: coming by small boats is not illegal.

The short answer is they don’t get given the choice.

Mainstream international travel requires a passport , which lots of refugees don’t have, and often can’t get from their first country of arrival. Even when they do, for most nationalities travel to another country requires a visa, obtained in your home country before you leave it. Embassies in refugee first arrival places like Turkey don’t have the resources to offer visas as the scale that would be needed. No visa, no boarding.

The longer answer, for the EU (other countries have an equivalent) is that there is an EU Directive (the Carrier Sanctions Directive 2001/51/EC) that imposes sanctions on carriers – such as airline companies – if they transport passengers that are not in possession of valid travel documents. Fines can be up to €500k.

A clause in the Directive does say that signatory countries airlines/other carriers should take account of obligations under the 1951 Geneva Convention, which means airlines etc shouldn’t prevent asylum seekers from travelling. But - and it’s a massive but - that means check-in staff are left to decide, in just a few minutes, whether someone is a genuine asylum seeker (never illegal) or an illegal immigrant, and not surprisingly, they err on the side of caution.

To help staff decide, most EU countries have asylum/immigration experts at the airports and ports, but they can only advise, and there are no benefits to airlines etc in taking that advice, and high financial. risk if it’s wrong, so again, erring on the side of caution wins.

Precisely Maudi. Unless you have family in the UK or speak English rather than the languages of other safe countries you have passed through, why pay a smuggler to take you to the UK by boat? Why?

That’s a very odd post GSM, as most do have family in the UK, and do speak English, that’s why they want to come to the UK?

Most? Can you provide evidence of that Casdon?

Yes
www.redcross.org.uk/stories/migration-and-displacement/refugees-and-asylum-seekers/5-reasons-people-cross-the-channel

The majority do stop in countries close to their own, Lebanon is full of refugees for example Those who travel on mostly remain in European countries on the way.
We have far fewer refugees than most countries and those that come here want to come because they think we are a safe country, where people are polite welcoming and friendly )and most of us are) but the main reason is they often speak English and have family here.
Given a choice wouldn’t we all choose a country where we speak the language rather than having to learn a new one fluently. To be properly fluent takes years, and they want to be able to work.
A few might be lazy but most want to work. We have our own lazy people here don’t forget. Under pension age not sick just not working.
We are all people and never ‘illegals’ which is a horrible way to describe someone.

Casdon

Yes
www.redcross.org.uk/stories/migration-and-displacement/refugees-and-asylum-seekers/5-reasons-people-cross-the-channel

I read the word ‘many’ Casdon, not ‘most’.

Oh for god’s sake