Boris Johnson

The most shocking party attended by Boris Johnson was when he was Foreign Secretary, and immediately after the Russian chemical attack in Salisbury. attended a high level NATO summit, then went from there, without any of his officials, to party at the Italian villa of his friend Evgeny Lebedev, where he met his father, Alexander Lebedev, a former KGB agent and where it looks likely that he was compromised.

His dishevelled appearance the next morning at Puglia Airport should have prompted questions.

Shortly after Evegeny Lebedev was made a member of The House of Lords, against the advise of the scrutiny committee. Why?

www.facebook.com/JonDanzigWrites/videos/196645966403866/

Well said, Urmstongran Such holier than thou comments on here.

It's just a guess but I think it likely that almost all of the posters on Gransnet, indeed almost all of the UK population, are more moral and more honest and more considerate for others, than Boris Johnson.

That does not make us "holier than thou". Only better people than Johnson.

Arto1s

Well said, Urmstongran Such holier than thou comments on here.

Did you break the law and had parties then?

Yes indeed Varian - the Russian links are in so many ways even more worrying- especially as he was Foreign Secretary when he visited Lebedev in Italy, and went against all official advice, and refuse to be accompanied by his brief. Massively serious- especially now in view of interference with the Brexit vote, and of course, the war in Ukraine, with Johnson up to his neck in it. Is he being blackmailed- was he filmed when so drunk. With 'ladies' being provided for his entertainment too.

Casdon

Oreo

Sandelf I know lots of people who broke lockdown rules and partied, and there were huge weddings that went on under the radar and huge funerals.
There were also some hospital staff who partied and posted pics online.Neighbours continued with BBQ’s in their back gardens.
It went on.
Boris and Number 10 officials had to show they were squeaky clean tho, as leading the Nation.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, even if everybody you knew was partying - they were all breaking the law, weren’t they?

I’m unable to comprehend why people think the government who set the law for everybody should deem it acceptable to blatantly break it themselves.

They were breaking the law.
Same for Boris and pals in Downing St.
What part of my post don’t people understand, it’s clear enough.
The government had to toe the line even when many people in the country didn’t.
The huge weddings that went on were Hindu, Muslim and also Jewish and were reported on tv.Ditto some funerals.
Some were fined and some got away with it.
NHS staff had a Christmas party and a friend who’s a nurse was part of it and showed me pics on her phone.Other posters on here mention nurses doing the same.That doesn’t mean every nurse in the country was doing it but it went on.
Same for neighbours and their back garden BBQ’s.
No I didn’t shop them, it’s not 1984.

Johnson's behaviour was unacceptable.
Johnson lied to the HoC
Johnson has been tried by parliamentary procedure.
Nobody, but nobody is above the rule of law.even if a few deluded individuals think that getting Brexit done gives you carte blanche to break the law, even after you set it.
The members of the committee were doing their job.
You paid for Johnson's defence, so did I, but unwillingly.
I did not break lockdown rules.
Stop judging the rest of us based on what you find acceptable, most intelligent people know a liar when we see one and care a great deal about democracy.

sandelf

Such a waste of time and money (all these folk earn a king's ransom). I know SO many people who ignored the guidelines - 'you're only 70 once' etc that I really don't care any more. There is useful and important work they could be doing.

But are you not missing the point? The people you know who ignored the guidelines were not, presumably, those in positions of power who imposed them on the nation.

The committee is asking whether Johnson deliberately misled parliament. Not whether he attended the parties. The CPC exists to look at possible contempt of Parliament, and breaches of privilege. I think that's fairly important - when individuals hold positions of power.

I too am Spartacus. I didn’t break lockdown rules, neither did my family, friends or neighbours. I’m not ‘holier than thou’ and my adult children and their large friendship groups are known to live a party (yes one with alcohol). They didn’t do this during lockdown.
The issue isn’t whataboutery. It’s whether Johnson lied. He did and will continue to so. It’s likely he believes what he says. That doesn’t mean he isn’t lying.

HousePlantQueen

Johnson's behaviour was unacceptable.
Johnson lied to the HoC
Johnson has been tried by parliamentary procedure.
Nobody, but nobody is above the rule of law.even if a few deluded individuals think that getting Brexit done gives you carte blanche to break the law, even after you set it.
The members of the committee were doing their job.
You paid for Johnson's defence, so did I, but unwillingly.
I did not break lockdown rules.
Stop judging the rest of us based on what you find acceptable, most intelligent people know a liar when we see one and care a great deal about democracy.

This and this Iam64 Fri 24-Mar-23 21:44:01
I am Spartacus too.

Surely those who make the rules should lead by example?

HousePlantQueen

Johnson's behaviour was unacceptable.
Johnson lied to the HoC
Johnson has been tried by parliamentary procedure.
Nobody, but nobody is above the rule of law.even if a few deluded individuals think that getting Brexit done gives you carte blanche to break the law, even after you set it.
The members of the committee were doing their job.
You paid for Johnson's defence, so did I, but unwillingly.
I did not break lockdown rules.
Stop judging the rest of us based on what you find acceptable, most intelligent people know a liar when we see one and care a great deal about democracy.

Who are you talking to?
If it’s me, use the quote facility.
I’ve been clear all along, Boris Johnson and all in number ten who had parties or get togethers were wrong just as all those who partied and got together in the country were wrong.
Being the government who set the rules made Boris and pals even more wrong tbh.
Many people stayed within lockdown rules but OMG very many sure didn’t.

Am all for taking Boris to the cleaners but had to point out that quite a lot of the nation were not the saints that all these GN members are.

Johnson is a reasonably intelligent man, expensively educated. Yet he decided to consult his PR gurus, not his legal team. If he intended to tell Parliament the truth about whether the laws were broken or not on his watch, then the lawyers were the people to ask. I would expect someone trying to construct a cover-up to ask for PR help.

I would also see this lying cover-up as egregious when repeated, over and over, by Johnson, who then failed to correct Hansard in a reasonable time.

Whether other people broke the rules, whether we could not attend a funeral, comfort relatives, etc., is irrelevant in this instance. The question is did the then PM lie to Parliament and, if he did, was it intentional?

If he gave a PR answer and avoided even knowing the legal one, then he did, and it was intentional.

Oreo

Am all for taking Boris to the cleaners but had to point out that quite a lot of the nation were not the saints that all these GN members are.

...but had to point out that quite a lot of the nation were not the saints that all these GN members are.

Why the snark?

And we know that some broke the rules - the media often reported the fact - or their version of the facts.

I didn't - not because I'm saintly but because I didn't want to catch the damned virus, or spread it if I unknowingly had it.

I felt sorry for young people who had to curtail their normal activities, and for those who were lonely and isolated. Even more sorry for families who couldn't meet up - children and the elderly in particular.

I believed that isolating from groups acted in the same way as a 'fire-break'. It made sense. And as a CEV, I simply did not want to take unnecessary risks.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who simply followed the rules, hoping that they would be short-lived and that we could get back to some semblance of normality by doing so.

... so I'm a 'saint'?

Honestly, I don’t know anyone who broke the rules. My village was like a ghost town during that awful time.

Oreo 'Many people stayed within lockdown rules but OMG very many sure didn’t.'

NO, the vast majority stayed within lockdown rules, but a very tiny minority of idiots did not. This is totally irrelevant anyhow. We are talking here about those who made the rules, imposed them on others (quite rightly and for the best of reasons)- but decided it didn't apply to them- and their head honcho LIED to us all about it. THAT is the issue, not that a few (unprintable) did not.

Am all for taking Boris to the cleaners but had to point out that quite a lot of the nation were not the saints that all these GN members are.

It is not a question of what other people do. It is the simple fact that if you lay down rules for other people and punish those who break them, then you must, yourself, obey the rules meticulously, or accept the punishment that goes with breaking them. and as a general rule most people would expect the punishment of the rule breaking rule maker to receive a more severe punishment.

volver3

For England? 😖

Yes, volver3. I was quoting Leo Amery on 3 Sept 1939 in a famous Commons debate.

Thanks Grantanow I hadn't heard of that before. I'll look it up!

M0nica

^Am all for taking Boris to the cleaners but had to point out that quite a lot of the nation were not the saints that all these GN members are.^

It is not a question of what other people do. It is the simple fact that if you lay down rules for other people and punish those who break them, then you must, yourself, obey the rules meticulously, or accept the punishment that goes with breaking them. and as a general rule most people would expect the punishment of the rule breaking rule maker to receive a more severe punishment.

When you want to defend the indefensible, the MO is to disparage / belittle those who won't.

"Johnson is a known liar"... "all politicians tell lies"

"He broke the rules he imposed"... "lots of other people did too"

"I didn't break the rules"... "we can't all be as holier-than-thou as you"

"Honesty and integrity in Parliament are important"... "there are more serious things going on"

And if Johnson is sanctioned and disappears into the political wilderness, it will, of course, have been a "witch-hunt" orchestrated by those with "an axe to grind".

That's how you invalidate people's genuine concerns without ever addressing the issues involved.

The Daily Mail excels at teaching these responses, Dickens

Excellent post Dickens.

Dickens a great and necessary post.

So true Dickens and you see it all the time.

One more go then I give up😄
I agree with what many others say on here regards Boris and number ten parties and that as the government you have to lead from the front.
If anyone actually reads my posts they would see that.
My point was saying that so many on here say that they don’t know anyone who broke lockdown rules, one poster even denying the truth of all the weddings that got busted and other gatherings that were reported on the news, some with footage of the events.
That doesn’t detract from the Boris fiasco in any way.I am simply saying that many not just a few people broke rules at the time both in small and big ways.

That doesn’t detract from the Boris fiasco in any way.I am simply saying that many not just a few people broke rules at the time both in small and big ways.

So, Oreo, out of the 60million+ population of the UK, what percentage would you say broke the rules? Using the news reports and anecdotal evidence you have. So, for example, how many 'massive weddings' involving how many people and what percentage of 60+ million would that represent? Just as a matter of interest.

And, bearing that 60+ million figure in mind, what figure would you place on 'many'?

I know this is actually quite irrelevant to the Johnson case as he was in the unique position of having written the rules, explaining them to the population almost daily on TV and telling them that it was absolutely vital that the rules were followed. I don't think that actually applies to most of the other rule breakers.. (apart from his close aides and advisors)