Brexit finally ends channel Crossing

Katie59

varian

Sorry it is behind the FT paywall

Is a story about the treatment of a group of French school children visiting Stratford upon Avon and the absurd beaurocracy they had to deal with to get visas.

Their teacher who had been leading groups to the UK for more than twenty years described their treatment as "Kafkaesque"

Three of the children, who were nationals of China, Nigeria and Georgia wre not permitted to enter the UK although another, a Cambodian national was.

You don’t need a visa if you have a French passport, but I can imagine there are a lot of children in French schools that other passports, hence the problem.

This exactly. France and most other EU countries have Identity Cards, and before Brexit, tourists could visit the UK using those. The UK no longer allows it- so everyone needs a passport, which is expensive to get.

Another difference is that in France and most other EU countries, children at secondary schools are taught as a 'class' the stay together for all subjects (unlike the UK when they are mostly in 'forms' but taught in separate groups for different subjects. If I organised a trip abroad, be it language, culture, ski, etc - then some children from many forms would come along- and others not. In France (and other EU countries mostly)- children from ONE class would go on a trip- the whole class, no exceptions. Either they all go, or they don't go. One of the reason is social/educational- the other is that they do not have a system where teachers cover for absent teachers, as in the UK.

We are regular travellers on the Portsmouth-Ouistreham (Caen) ferry and there has been very little change in the processing time at Ouistreham since Brexit.

The French were already doing passport checks before Brexit, in the same way that the UK never stopped doing passport checks at Portsmouth throughout the years we were EU members.

We have been doing the journey 8-10 times a year for 30 years and while in the early years we drove off the ferry and away, that has long ceased.

We have watched as security at the ports has got tighter and tighter. To begin with little security or fences and you wandered in and out, then fences, then double fences with razor wire, now armed police wandering around as well.

This has happened first because of the risk of terrorism, going back the end of the last century and then African immigrants trying to smuggle themselves into the UK, although this has more or less ended now, too few ferries and lorries driving straight into the protected port area without stopping or slowing down.

Brexit, itself, has had little effect on processing time through Ouistreham.

Thanks for the links varian.
I was looking for some kind of meaningful comparison between the current situation and the story in Kafka's der Prozeß, 1914, which is seen as a satire of the Austro-Hungarian bureaucracy in Kafka's day.
And in the end, completely unresolvable.

I cannot see how these ferries are going to cope with delays caused by larger loads in holiday periods.
Will it actually not ease off in the summer holidays because there will be far fewer coaches (no school trips) and children will be dispersed in cars with their parents making checks easier?

Joseanne

^I cannot see how these ferries are going to cope with delays caused by larger loads in holiday periods.^
Will it actually not ease off in the summer holidays because there will be far fewer coaches (no school trips) and children will be dispersed in cars with their parents making checks easier?

Possibly. but I would think that a full ferry would carry a number of people more than equivalent to the numbers in the coachloads of school parties. Even with the 8 coach loads of children on our ferry yesterday the ferry was less than half empty. I might not have travelled this route as frequently as MOnica but having travelled all the routes, Poole - Cherbourg, Portsmouth - Cherbourg and Portsmouth - Caen, in spring, summer and early autumn over the past 30 years I do know what a full ferry looks like... If a less than half full ferry can be delayed by an hour or more, what happens with a full one?

And, unless the 90 day rule is going to be ignored, I can't see that having to check all the passport stamps to tot up the number of days already spent in Schengen is going to be a quick job for the passport control staff.

(I wondered idly, too, if all that passport stamping might lead to repetitive strain injuries )

Joseanne They will cope as they always have done in the past (see my previous post)

I'm wondering whether ferry companies operate differently? In Plymouth with Brittany Ferries the school kids are offloaded from the coach and walk on in crocodile fashion while the driver waits, which saves all the tedious hanging around on the coach.
PS I never know whether the ferry is packed or not because I'm in my Commodore Class cabin, highly recommended! 🍷 😋

And, unless the 90 day rule is going to be ignored, I can't see that having to check all the passport stamps to tot up the number of days already spent in Schengen is going to be a quick job for the passport control staff.

It isn't watertight, as I've got a missing stamp in 2022, so I could have been anywhere!

I would have thought that days spent in any EU Country will be on their computer system as it is in most countries.

Yes, I'm not planning on cheating the system before the vigilante jump on here!

I have yet to see a passport officer make any attempt to add up the number of days we have spent in France to check whether we are there too long. This is not something passport officers are going to waste their time doing. Given that at least 98% of all people passing through the port will not be anywhere near the limit.

Anyway, I doubt that anyone who is already over the 90 days limit is going to be trying to go to France. It is people who once they are in France, quite legally, then overstay the 90 person limit that they want to pick up, and you do not catch those people at passport checkins. They are found in areas where Brits live or have second homes.

To be honest the law is there to be used when it suits the French. I think the French authorities have better things to do than chase up holiday makers going to the mediterranean for the winter and staying a couple of weeks over the limit.

The French have the sense not to waste their time chasing up inessentials, Pity the British cannot act similarily.

In other words.

British government: Here's this law we think is important.

Still the British Government: Why are you trying to maintain that law! Bl**dy French bureaucracy. We're British, don'tcha know!!

I would say that the time to disembark at Caen Ouistreham in the car has got slightly longer since passports have had to be stamped (or not stamped in our case). I haven't noticed any change as a foot passenger.
Interestingly our Spanish granddaughter is going on a school trip to England and needed a passport as she only had an ID card. The office in their local town produced the passport for free while they waited.
You have to wonder why other countries (including France) make it more complicated.

Mamie
I can’t comment on other counties but I don’t think the French forgave us over Calais 😱

As an aside the government is rapidly backtracking on the repeal of the EU laws - pet project of Smogg- because of the strong opposition from businesses, environmentalists, farmers, unions and the House of Lords.

The project is to be shelved certainly until after the May elections and possibly until after the general election.

MerylStreep

Mamie
I can’t comment on other counties but I don’t think the French forgave us over Calais 😱

Queen Mary losing it to the French in 1558? Well I know it isn't the most attractive town in France, but did they really not want it back? 😂😂😂

I would say that the time to disembark at Caen Ouistreham in the car has got slightly longer since passports have had to be stamped

Our passports were stamped at Portsmouth by French passport control, Mamie.

We had to queue twice at Portsmouth; once for check in at the UK booth and then at the French booth for passport check and stamping,.

(Actually, between the two booths all cars had to go through the fairly stringent security checks, goodness knows what they do on a busy day )

PS I never know whether the ferry is packed or not because I'm in my Commodore Class cabin, highly recommended!

We've spent many a happy hour trailing round the ferry trying to find somewhere to sit and entertain the children. No cabins for holidays on a budget.. If your car was one of the last onto the ferry the floor was where you sat for the crossing...

MaizieD

^I would say that the time to disembark at Caen Ouistreham in the car has got slightly longer since passports have had to be stamped^

Our passports were stamped at Portsmouth by French passport control, Mamie.

We had to queue twice at Portsmouth; once for check in at the UK booth and then at the French booth for passport check and stamping,.

(Actually, between the two booths all cars had to go through the fairly stringent security checks, goodness knows what they do on a busy day )

PS I never know whether the ferry is packed or not because I'm in my Commodore Class cabin, highly recommended!

We've spent many a happy hour trailing round the ferry trying to find somewhere to sit and entertain the children. No cabins for holidays on a budget.. If your car was one of the last onto the ferry the floor was where you sat for the crossing...

Blimey that's new. Not there when I went in December. So did they check them again in Ouistreham?

Whitewavemark2

As an aside the government is rapidly backtracking on the repeal of the EU laws - pet project of Smogg- because of the strong opposition from businesses, environmentalists, farmers, unions and the House of Lords.

The project is to be shelved certainly until after the May elections and possibly until after the general election.

I think this deserves more than an 'aside' Wwmk2. It's a huge relief for those of us who are interested in the British constitution and the implementation of Parliamentary Sovereignty!

I understand that the tory Lords threatened to revolt if the government tried to persist with it. God bless the Lords...

GrannyGravy13

I would have thought that days spent in any EU Country will be on their computer system as it is in most countries.

That is why they don't just stamp the passport, but scan them to register electronically dates and times.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

As an aside the government is rapidly backtracking on the repeal of the EU laws - pet project of Smogg- because of the strong opposition from businesses, environmentalists, farmers, unions and the House of Lords.

The project is to be shelved certainly until after the May elections and possibly until after the general election.

I think this deserves more than an 'aside' Wwmk2. It's a huge relief for those of us who are interested in the British constitution and the implementation of Parliamentary Sovereignty!

I understand that the tory Lords threatened to revolt if the government tried to persist with it. God bless the Lords...

😄 Indeed. They’ve beheaded Henry V111!

Mamie

MaizieD

I would say that the time to disembark at Caen Ouistreham in the car has got slightly longer since passports have had to be stamped

Our passports were stamped at Portsmouth by French passport control, Mamie.

We had to queue twice at Portsmouth; once for check in at the UK booth and then at the French booth for passport check and stamping,.

(Actually, between the two booths all cars had to go through the fairly stringent security checks, goodness knows what they do on a busy day )

PS I never know whether the ferry is packed or not because I'm in my Commodore Class cabin, highly recommended!

We've spent many a happy hour trailing round the ferry trying to find somewhere to sit and entertain the children. No cabins for holidays on a budget.. If your car was one of the last onto the ferry the floor was where you sat for the crossing...

Blimey that's new. Not there when I went in December. So did they check them again in Ouistreham?

They were checked again at Ouistreham, but the stamping happened at Portsmouth.

Stamped at Ouistreham on the way home to the UK.

I wonder if all this happens for the ferries to Spain.

😄 Indeed. They’ve beheaded Henry V111!

👏👏👏

MaizieD

Mamie

MaizieD

I would say that the time to disembark at Caen Ouistreham in the car has got slightly longer since passports have had to be stamped

Our passports were stamped at Portsmouth by French passport control, Mamie.

We had to queue twice at Portsmouth; once for check in at the UK booth and then at the French booth for passport check and stamping,.

(Actually, between the two booths all cars had to go through the fairly stringent security checks, goodness knows what they do on a busy day )

PS I never know whether the ferry is packed or not because I'm in my Commodore Class cabin, highly recommended!

We've spent many a happy hour trailing round the ferry trying to find somewhere to sit and entertain the children. No cabins for holidays on a budget.. If your car was one of the last onto the ferry the floor was where you sat for the crossing...

Blimey that's new. Not there when I went in December. So did they check them again in Ouistreham?

They were checked again at Ouistreham, but the stamping happened at Portsmouth.

Stamped at Ouistreham on the way home to the UK.

I wonder if all this happens for the ferries to Spain.

I have always thought it odd that you got checked by BF check-in and then UK border control as a foot passenger, but not in a car before boarding at Portsmouth. I could understand putting in UK border control for cars, but French ones when they also check on the other side seems bizarre.
So now we have to not get our passports stamped twice!

We've spent many a happy hour trailing round the ferry trying to find somewhere to sit and entertain the children. No cabins for holidays on a budget.. If your car was one of the last onto the ferry the floor was where you sat for the crossing...
Or the kids' playroom. The crash mats are very comfy!