Junior doctors strike

MaizieD

GPs and consultants are not junior doctors, Primrose53.

But they were once.

Oldbat1 - you say your neighbours 3 children are part time GPs. Full time General Practice is a killer! It is exhausting and draining. Men sometimes manage it because they have wives to support them. Most GPs need at least one day off in the week to catch up with sleep, home or paperwork. I was a part time GP for many years. I couldn't have survived full time

maddyone

You might find that the digging in the garden clothing is actually scrubs Primrose. My daughter (in fairness not a junior doctor now) has never worn normal clothing at work since Covid, it’s always scrubs.

I do know the difference thanks! One GP in our practice regularly comes to work in old jeans, filthy muddy trainers and an old scruffy shirt like he has come off the allotment.

And before anyone tries to defend such a slovenly appearance and say “but that doesn’t make him a bad doctor” he was only allowed to practice when supervised by another GP for about a year because a man died because he oversubscribed his medication by about 10 times the amount.

The junior Doctors have my support
. eazybee the NHS do not have senior Doctors its Junior Doctor or consultant.
oreo i find you comment offensive.
Yes Dr makes mistakes like everyone else I have yet to meet a perfect person who has never made a mistake.
I wonder if the cabinet have ever visited a NHS hospital ,would love to see them do a full shift in an A and E department. The emotional strain Drs are under needs to be considered along with the anti social hours.
After years of training these Drs are left with huge student loans to be paid back. Also its the emotional strain they are under.

A very young close relation was rushed into hospital last night just before the strike began. They are not over the worst that is yet to come. I would love to know how any parent in that situation would feel. When there are people outside singing and dancing who could be helping?

As I am no longer living in London I read about the NHS problems and wonder why the people who write here to blame the Conservatives for everything wrong in this huge organisation which is one of the largest organisations in the world. Free at the point of treatment and often overused by people who visit A&E unnecessarily. Just how much money will be required to restore the Service to the standard which is demanded. I notice people do not consider that other countries have properly run health services. In Eire citizens pay a sum maybe €5_€10 euros to see their doctor, although with only a small population it may not be good comparison. Countries in Europe seem to run decent services.

I smile when I read Labour will come in and fix the service. Do any of the Labour supporters ever think that we have a risinf population and that we spent so much money on COVID that the till is running out of money. I look forward to having Labour in power in UK. They will be facing some very serious financial problems. Why can’t we have positive discussions about the NHS and how it can be improved. There are good doctors and very bad doctors and the same among nurses. They are humans and we cannot say they are all angels. Read about the political background of the man who is leading the “Junior” doctors strike. Volver says she cries because some of us have the temerity to disagree with the usual left wing rants on GRANSNET. There are a group of these posters who hate everything Conservative and think that we should pay more tax, especially successful companies. I am now close to 90 but I still pay tax of all sorts. I am happy to do so but I wish we did not have so many work shy people who do not want to work but prefer to remain unemployed. Our level of productivity is painfully low and now we have teachers strikes. Passport worker strikes, rail strikes doctors strikes etc Why is it that Labour supporters never think of costs and look back to the glory days of Tony Blair who used his cunning to fight wars. To open our borders to high immigration ( the immigrants will vote Labour) and to spend money on hospitals and schools which now are tied to spend with PFI contractors. These discussions on how we should spend money are avoided, but meanwhile it costs £7 million a day to house asylum seekers and immigrants. We do not have housing for them or for our own homeless. And so it goes on.

I may have said this further back on the thread but my dd worked in A&E all of the Easter weekend. Attendance levels were at 20% of their usual levels. Not 20% down but just 20% of what they’d expect on a normal weekend. Many of those were children who’d had accidents. .

I wonder why the the figures are so different.

Yammy

A very young close relation was rushed into hospital last night just before the strike began. They are not over the worst that is yet to come. I would love to know how any parent in that situation would feel. When there are people outside singing and dancing who could be helping?

The family and young person have my sympathy Yammy. If it was me in that position I would be relieved that they were already in hospital, because there are enough senior staff around to keep them relatively safe.

The blame lies with the government for this situation, that’s where all our anger should be directed. Underpaying professionals consistently for over ten years, professionals who have had to undergo far more training and gain more experience on the job than the vast majority of cabinet ministers have, and refusing to discuss their claim is insulting.

Thanks, Casdon we are all waiting for the outcome, they got in just in time.

Yammy I hope your relative recovers

SueDonim my daughter is a GP. She has often said that many patients don’t need to see a doctor and she considers them to be time wasters. However she knows that she must be professional with them regardless as she doesn’t want complaints against her. Other times seriously ill people present in her surgery and she has to administer life saving treatments and get ambulances etc. Then some one will complain that their appointment is late!

The younger recently qualified junior doctors have my support. Others are going over the top, looking for a 20k increase in salary

Sadly I support the strike. My son left the UK to start a new life in New Zealand after working as a junior doctor in the NHS. At the time he was sometimes required to work 92 hours in one week. He was exhausted and had very little time with his family. In New Zealand he feels valued and has a much better work / life balance. We need to pay our doctors fairly for the long training they have undertaken and for the great responsibility they carry.

I think some of the issue, Maddy is that doctors are now having to be social workers as well. Many of the A&E cases dd sees are really cries for help because some people live such unfortunate lives and have nowhere else to turn.

Some are regulars with MH problems for which they’ve received all the help available but it hasn’t helped them. They live such chaotic lives and have no support system, so an A&E seems like a safe space for them.

There are time-wasters, of course. The ones that want a strip of paracetamol for a headache or come in at 3am with a stye on their eye or want the A&E medics to fast-track treatment their GP has recommended. (Her A&E can’t and won’t do this!) Sometimes they want a second opinion because they don’t like what another doctor has told them.

Life in all its glory is in A&E!

Doctors have paid for their studies putting them into great debt. They have the choice stay in the UK or leave and work at better rates.

Many are leaving and you cannot blame them, others are staying and trying to get things changed. If they were paid better maybe more would stay. This of course would mean that everyone will have to pay more in their taxes like other EU countries.

The government want a US type of health care.

SueDonim There was a huge campaign here before the Easter weekend warning of the queues that were likely and advising people not to go uness it was an emergency .My friends daughter is a junior Doctor in an Edinburgh hospital and she also reported that it was much quieter than normal .
Maybe people are just getting the message at last to only head to A and E in emergencies.We can but hope .

Can I agin point out that Junior doctors in Scotland are NOT on strike

paddyann54

SueDonim There was a huge campaign here before the Easter weekend warning of the queues that were likely and advising people not to go uness it was an emergency .My friends daughter is a junior Doctor in an Edinburgh hospital and she also reported that it was much quieter than normal .
Maybe people are just getting the message at last to only head to A and E in emergencies.We can but hope .

Can I agin point out that Junior doctors in Scotland are NOT on strike

In fairness to the media, it’s been made clear that the junior doctors are only on strike in England Paddyann54. The problem lies in the government refusing to negotiate with them, which the devolved governments have tried to do, albeit within strict parameters of affordability as they need more funding for the NHS from central government.

What I would love to see happen is to get rid of the misnomer " junior" doctor. Maybe newly qualified doctors deserve a pay rise ( though not 35%) , but I very much doubt that more senior doctors are on the bread line. And if their main argument is overwork or stress or long hours then no payrise will alter that situation.

All doctors deserve a pay rise, and a good one. Their pay has been held down for over ten years for goodness sake! Why don’t all doctors deserve a good pay rise
Lizbethann? The knowledge and skills that doctors possess is unique, and where would we be without them? Many of us probably not here! I certainly wouldn’t be as I’ve had several life threatening illnesses over the years and the doctors were always there when I needed them.

SueDonim I think you’re right about A+E. In general practice I think there are times doctors need to be social workers too, but my daughter’s last position before she emigrated was in a very well heeled area, and she told me that the sense of entitlement was huge. Patients sometimes demanded treatments even if not appropriate or supplied by the NHS. There was a tendency among some patients to make a complaint if their demands were not met. I’m thinking here of demands for sun screen on the NHS or nit lotion on prescription. Seriously, I’m not making this up. It’s unbelievable isn’t it?

I haven’t seen anything of campaign about not going to hospital over Easter. Easter Monday isn’t a bank holiday in Scotland and certainly in my area the NHS was running Covid vax clinics yesterday.

One thing which must have changed since I worked in the NHS is the requirement to not be closed for two consecutive days. All services apart from outpatients had to work Saturday mornings. I worked one in two, or maybe three, (can’t quite recall!) Saturdays. I worked Boxing Days and Easter, too. It was just part of the job and actually was quite nice as there wasn’t the everyday hustle to cope with as well and there’d only be a few people in. I must admit, I’m agog that GP surgeries now close for four consecutive days at a time.

The entitlement thing is plain weird, Maddy. I went to the US last month and the cabin crew were telling me how much more demanding and unpleasant passengers are since Covid. I mean, why. What do they expect? It’s baffling.

AuntieEleanorsCat

This appalling Govt has to go.

They’ve planned this public sector disaster right across the piece:- Drs, nurses, fire service, teachers. Then, we have Tory ministers wanting £10k for a “consultation”!!!

I’m furious on behalf of our workers.

Yes AuntieE’s cat, I’m furious in behalf of the junior doctors and workers in all our public services.
12 years of Tory misrule, with the aim of turning all our public services into profit making private industries.
This despite the failure of for example private children’s homes and the probation service

Yammy

A very young close relation was rushed into hospital last night just before the strike began. They are not over the worst that is yet to come. I would love to know how any parent in that situation would feel. When there are people outside singing and dancing who could be helping?

My sympathy is with your relation and parents. However, that isn't a true picture of the situation, is it? We know there are arrangements to cover and that if these are not working because of a large issue (something like Grenfell) people will leave the picket lines to cover.

Surely the worry should be about when, having not been paid or treated properly by the government, and working in buildings that are falling down around them, there are very few doctors because they have left.

Then hand wringing will be most appropriate.

I do sympathise with their situation and it's not fair the hours they are expected to work with not enough qualified doctors. However to ask for 35% in this day and age is a bit much. Also the NHS should step up the amount of tests and testers that foreign doctors need to take when applying to work in UK.

The 35% is what it would take to restore the 26% reduction in earnings.

Simple maths,

Having said that, I am sure the junior doctors would be willing to accept a lower offer after negotiation..

Well said plus the nice pensions these drs get eventually paid for by us

Zoe65

Well said plus the nice pensions these drs get eventually paid for by us

What are you saying, that they should work for a pittance given their qualifications and experience, and then not get a decent pension either? They contribute to society in a much greater way than most people do, it’s no wonder they feel undervalued if even their pensions are begrudged.