Why is Keir Starmer afraid to tell the truth about brexit?

Grany

Starmer will be worse than the tories.

I guessed you were a closet Tory.

I don’t think anyone answered my question. How long will it take a new government to put everything right? What does anyone think?

GrannyRose15

I don’t think anyone answered my question. How long will it take a new government to put everything right? What does anyone think?

Ten years - two parliaments. Hopefully they will bring in PR during the second.

Well, GrannyRose15, it's taken the tories 13 years to break the UK so I don't think there are going to be any quick fixes.

They could boost the economy quite fast by sorting out public service pay as most of the money would be spent into the economy, giving a boost to all the private enterprises that would be supported by consumers actually having enough money to spend in them.

And putting money into public services, such as the environment agency would help to stem the pollution of our seas and rivers. HMRC would be able to chase up the big tax evaders more effectively. Social care, the justice system, the NHS(and doubtless other services which people could name) would all benefit from some state investment.

But the big problem they are going to face is a shortage of trained personnel for these services as training is a long term issue. We're going to have to rely on immigration to help solve this problem in the short term and possibly in the long term as the population ages even further and, at the average family being 1.7 children, it's not being replaced

Then there is the Green agenda, more investment in retrofitting old properties to make them energy efficient and investment in alternative energy. They've already signalled investment of £28billion, though it would take much more than that.

The NHS needs a thorough reform to make it an integrated care service and to cut out the silly business models that the tories introduced which just make patient care much more complex. It needs careful thought and planning and isn't going to happen overnight.

Then, of course, the UK has to be somehow rescued from the ridiculous Brexit decision...

I think it will take at least two terms and a lot of money to get the UK on its feet again.

This is just off the top of my head.

Truthfully I am a bit doubtful as to whether Labour has the necessary vision to make the much needed huge initial investment, but I can hope...

A vote for the Greens may be symbolically valuable but I'm afraid it would be ineffective in dislodging the Tories. I shall probably hold my nose and vote Lib Dem (if I can remember my voter ID) as voting Labour in the South West is mostly a waste. I just worry the Lib Dems will once again be seduced into coalition with the Tories.

Labour has no vision. Kicked out the left even interfered in the selection processes so now establishment will welcome them into power. They will do what follow establishment or media say as they do not have anyone on the left to stop them. He won't do what he says he will he's lied up until now and will do the same in power. Better to have the Greens with their very good polices and their environmental polices need transformative polices like these of the Greens not the right of the Labour Party now. When he was in leadership contest Rebecca Long Bailey announced all her polices them Starmer followed coming out with the same So people had a choice a man with socialist polices or a woman they chose him. Then as leader he broke everyone of his 10 pledges. When DPP he was on the establishment side. Now he has an expenses scandal charging tax payer for his expenses when DPP

I cannot envisage RLB as PM

Grany

Starmer will be worse than the tories.

You don’t really think that, do you?
How?

When DPP he was on the establishment side.

Do you not believe in the Rule of Law, Grany?

As an aside. I have read a couple of articles relating to the latest twitter “ads” been put out by The Labour Party. I have eventually come to the conclusion that they are wrong to follow the Tory lead and attack at a personal level as the Tories do and have done over the years. To me going down this populist divisive road I can never end well. I am aware that companies like CM Saatchi support this Labour initiative arguing that it shows that Labour is prepared to take the fight to the Tories, particularly as it is known that the Tories are preparing to fight really dirty leading up to the election. But I feel very uneasy.

I think Starmer should be bigger than that quite frankly.

The expenses issue is another red herring, Starmer did nothing wrong - there is no scandal.

Whitewavemark2

As an aside. I have read a couple of articles relating to the latest twitter “ads” been put out by The Labour Party. I have eventually come to the conclusion that they are wrong to follow the Tory lead and attack at a personal level as the Tories do and have done over the years. To me going down this populist divisive road I can never end well. I am aware that companies like CM Saatchi support this Labour initiative arguing that it shows that Labour is prepared to take the fight to the Tories, particularly as it is known that the Tories are preparing to fight really dirty leading up to the election. But I feel very uneasy.

I think Starmer should be bigger than that quite frankly.

The expenses issue is another red herring, Starmer did nothing wrong - there is no scandal.

I agree Whitewavemark, I’m not a fan of the populist personal attack route for ads either.

Today 10:53paddyann54

Oh dear Molly of course Starmer would "allow" a holiday ,he's a SIR so he obviously agrees with the monarchy or he'd have refused an Empire title/medal .
THATS one of the reasons many labour or previous labour voters wont vote for him that and his pro israeli stance to the extent palestinian supporting jews were accused of anti semitism and barred from a party they had been members of for decades.
No skin of my nose the pro palestinian jews I know joined the SNP who dont accept honours or think Israel is in any way justified in the treatment of the Palestinian people .Aparty that sees being anti Israeli government is NOT anti semitic .
Of course SNP is a mess....according to media and Gransnet ,unlike your own squeaky clean government...where are the billions given to Tory donors ,relatives and even a friendly pub owner ?
Think this is the correct thread Paddyanne for your post.

FannyCornforth

I cannot envisage RLB as PM

Couldn't stand her.

Grantanow

A vote for the Greens may be symbolically valuable but I'm afraid it would be ineffective in dislodging the Tories. I shall probably hold my nose and vote Lib Dem (if I can remember my voter ID) as voting Labour in the South West is mostly a waste. I just worry the Lib Dems will once again be seduced into coalition with the Tories.

Oh please, Grantanow, let Granny go to the Greens. At least her attacks on the Labour would then seem a little bit logical. I doubt it would last though. Attacks on the Green's would soon start though, I would guess.

Don’t best around the bush Dinah
I agree though, and also with WW about those terrible ads.
This is another example of them tripping themselves up.
They just need to keep their noses clean fgs 🙄

There is no way Grantanow that the LibDems would ever trust the Tories.

You are certainly right to vote LibDem in the Southwest.

At last year's election for the new unitary council of Somerset the number of councillors elected for each party were -

Liberal Democrat 61
Conservative 36
Green 5
Labour 5
Independent 3

Grany

Today 10:53paddyann54

Oh dear Molly of course Starmer would "allow" a holiday ,he's a SIR so he obviously agrees with the monarchy or he'd have refused an Empire title/medal .
THATS one of the reasons many labour or previous labour voters wont vote for him that and his pro israeli stance to the extent palestinian supporting jews were accused of anti semitism and barred from a party they had been members of for decades.
No skin of my nose the pro palestinian jews I know joined the SNP who dont accept honours or think Israel is in any way justified in the treatment of the Palestinian people .Aparty that sees being anti Israeli government is NOT anti semitic .
Of course SNP is a mess....according to media and Gransnet ,unlike your own squeaky clean government...where are the billions given to Tory donors ,relatives and even a friendly pub owner ?
Think this is the correct thread Paddyanne for your post.

Is this a joke?

Whitewavemark2

As an aside. I have read a couple of articles relating to the latest twitter “ads” been put out by The Labour Party. I have eventually come to the conclusion that they are wrong to follow the Tory lead and attack at a personal level as the Tories do and have done over the years. To me going down this populist divisive road I can never end well. I am aware that companies like CM Saatchi support this Labour initiative arguing that it shows that Labour is prepared to take the fight to the Tories, particularly as it is known that the Tories are preparing to fight really dirty leading up to the election. But I feel very uneasy.

I think Starmer should be bigger than that quite frankly.

The expenses issue is another red herring, Starmer did nothing wrong - there is no scandal.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Starmer was found out by the media to be using a chauffeur, billing tax payer over £100,000 in 21 months, when found out he stopped and carried on for three more years as DPP. Starmer supposedly being about probity, integrity, personal conduct to bring up Tory expenses.
value for money you should think about your own value for money expense claims. Its in a lot of the papers now.

Grany

Starmer was found out by the media to be using a chauffeur, billing tax payer over £100,000 in 21 months, when found out he stopped and carried on for three more years as DPP. Starmer supposedly being about probity, integrity, personal conduct to bring up Tory expenses.
value for money you should think about your own value for money expense claims. Its in a lot of the papers now.

He did nothing wrong though - that is the point - there is no scandal unless you are saying that he should not have made any expenses claim to which as DPP he was entitled.

If you are saying it is morally wrong, then that is a different argument. But bear in mind that he was not a politician and as a public servant he was claiming expenses to which many public servants are entitled - I am sure there are grans who claimed what they were entitled to in expenses - I include myself in that.

grany you are doing a very good job for the Tories - don’t look at the dreadful government record - instead look at what a DPP claimed in expenses as a public servant.

Perhaps you need to argue against any public servant claiming expenses going about government business.

Sir Keir Starmer, the likely next UK prime minister, spent nearly a quarter of a million pounds of public money on travel expenses during his five years as head of England and Wales’ public prosecutor, it can be revealed.

The revelations are sure to embarrass Labour, which recently published a study of spending on UK government debit cards saying this showed the Tories using public money “like a cash machine”.

Labour accused the Conservative government of overseeing “lavish spending” on hotels, hospitality and other costs using taxpayer-funded debit cards.

Starmer said last month: “With my Labour government, every pound will be precious”

It's chicken feed really over five years, though the next DPP also did five years and her travel expenses were a third of the cost. Compare the 'royals' spending public money daily on themselves, they cost the taxpayer £345 million a year.

Grany

Starmer was found out by the media to be using a chauffeur, billing tax payer over £100,000 in 21 months, when found out he stopped and carried on for three more years as DPP. Starmer supposedly being about probity, integrity, personal conduct to bring up Tory expenses.
value for money you should think about your own value for money expense claims. Its in a lot of the papers now.

This too may be a joke - or not. The Tories, including Grany, seem to have dug up this story, which died a death years ago, in order to deflect the flack from Sunak.

Your bias really does seem to be to support those who have created the miserable conditions in this country Grany. I don't, after all, think the Green's will suit you. Only the hard right will attack those you seem to want to undermine.

Ah, Grany has been reading the Daily Mail and repeated its words.

This story is in the personal now. From Declasified amongst others if you care to look it up. Goes into detail. But like I said chicken feed compared to what the royals cost the tax payer.