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I fear the rise of National Conservatism

(284 Posts)
DaisyAnne Mon 24-Apr-23 11:12:25

I have disliked the direction the Conservatives have taken but this is such a stark reflection of the 1930s that I fear it.

Not heard of them? This New Statesman Podcast by Andrew Marr may help you understand who and what they are.

They are holding a conference next month (15 - 17 May). Speakers are to include Jacob Rees Mogg, Michael Gove, Suella Braverman and Danny Kruger. There will be lots of our Union flags, apparently. GB News also seems strongly represented.

Marr is a very knowledgeable man, so can give a much better explanation about where this Nationalist party has come from and why, than I can.

He does explain what the Labour Party are offering - a stronger state built on less centralisation - in reply to the perceived problems that have given the extreme right power around the world to revive nationalism. (He is going to do an analysis of the left in this series)

He also explains the roots of this party, as shown by its website nationalconservatism.org/ and summarises what this means to Rishi Sunak and to the left.

Please watch it before you reply, and don't just guess what it is about. We should both know and understand what this is about and where it is coming from.

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 17:37:30

I think James Orr is heading up the Edmund Burke input gsm

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 17:38:36

James Orr ex lawyer

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 17:40:42

Growstuff I last five minutes listening to Roger Scruton so admire your perseverance!

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 25-Apr-23 17:44:05

I’m an ex lawyer. So? I don’t claim any intellectual superiority such that my presence on a platform gives that platform any degree of gravitas.

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 17:46:47

GSM okay. Fine. I didn’t claim any gravitas for legal background. Just trying to understand how someone from Cambridge University which usually does have gravitas is involved.

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 17:52:43

Germanshepherdsmum

Have you looked at the NC’s website Fleurpepper? Looked at the names there? Looked at their beliefs? They are not the ERG, though some ERG members may have espoused their cause. These people are not simply Vote Leave in disguise. Their beliefs are far more sinister, much as you may wish to think that all paths lead to Brexit.

Been very busy, sorry. First names in Andrew Marr's report are 'Rees-Mogg, Gove and Braverman' all staunch ERG, and then Tice and Farage ... allying themselves to fascists all over the world. Yes, the ERG +++ - truly terrifying.

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 25-Apr-23 17:54:14

Perhaps because he subscribes to their worrying views and they’re delighted to have someone from Cambridge because it sounds impressive - though he’s only an associate professor. You get weirdos in all the major universities.

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 25-Apr-23 17:56:22

Look at the website and see what their beliefs are, Fleurpepper. It’s far worse than you think.

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 18:03:24

Yes, agreed.

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 18:11:50

nationalconservatism.org/national-conservatism-a-statement-of-principles/

varian Tue 25-Apr-23 18:13:26

It seems to me that Brexit was just a first step in the plan by these National Conservatives to push the UK much further to the right.

What do we hear about that agenda from the right wing tabloids?

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 18:23:33

Agreed, and yet many will refuse to see it. And the ERG and Vote Leave were very much part of this.

growstuff Tue 25-Apr-23 18:55:38

ronib

GSM okay. Fine. I didn’t claim any gravitas for legal background. Just trying to understand how someone from Cambridge University which usually does have gravitas is involved.

He's an associate professor! grin Sorry, but there's not a huge amount of gravitas attached to that.

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 18:59:46

Growstuff double first in classics from Balliol. Okay not bad! Still quite young.

growstuff Tue 25-Apr-23 19:01:34

ronib

Growstuff I last five minutes listening to Roger Scruton so admire your perseverance!

I feel the same about Harry/Meghan, the RF in general, Get me out of here, Strictly and that cake baking programme.

Observing politics is a hobby.

MaizieD Tue 25-Apr-23 19:01:43

Fleurpepper

nationalconservatism.org/national-conservatism-a-statement-of-principles/

Thank you for that link, Fp 😱

MaizieD Tue 25-Apr-23 19:02:53

ronib

Growstuff double first in classics from Balliol. Okay not bad! Still quite young.

I think we've had our fill of people with Classics degrees...

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 19:12:05

A double first… nowhere near BJ!

Oreo Tue 25-Apr-23 20:30:26

Amazes me how much spite attaches itself to anyone who did well at Oxford or Cambridge, I always assume it’s envy.
As to the subject of the OP, I don’t find it terrifying as it will never become mainstream in the conservative party, just as the extreme left won’t become mainstream in the labour party.

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 20:37:26

Oreo

Amazes me how much spite attaches itself to anyone who did well at Oxford or Cambridge, I always assume it’s envy.
As to the subject of the OP, I don’t find it terrifying as it will never become mainstream in the conservative party, just as the extreme left won’t become mainstream in the labour party.

Amazes me how you can read the comments above as 'spite about anyone who did well at Oxford and Cambridge' sad

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 20:38:39

Look at what happened to true one nation Conservatives- all pushed out by the ERG- to see that the extreme right has taken over the Cons.

Oreo Tue 25-Apr-23 20:52:04

Well the labour Party was in the process of being taken over by the extreme left when Corbyn was being idolised but it didn’t happen, they lost the GE big time, threw Corbyn out and stopped listening to the super left lefties.
The same will happen to the conservatives if they go down the extreme right road.

ronib Tue 25-Apr-23 21:35:28

Oreo I must admit that I am struggling a bit with some of the illogical statements issued by the Edmund Burke Foundation. It often seems to me that exceptionally able/academic people often lack common sense. I don’t think this movement will last very long here. I don’t subscribe to some of its fundamental beliefs and I can’t see it making much headway in the Uk in its current format. I can understand why a Christian group would seek to evangelise but this is not for the Uk market.

Fleurpepper Tue 25-Apr-23 21:37:35

Oreo

Well the labour Party was in the process of being taken over by the extreme left when Corbyn was being idolised but it didn’t happen, they lost the GE big time, threw Corbyn out and stopped listening to the super left lefties.
The same will happen to the conservatives if they go down the extreme right road.

It hasn't so far. And the best of them have been thrown out or left. Unlike what has happened in the Labour Party.

growstuff Tue 25-Apr-23 21:44:41

ronib

Oreo I must admit that I am struggling a bit with some of the illogical statements issued by the Edmund Burke Foundation. It often seems to me that exceptionally able/academic people often lack common sense. I don’t think this movement will last very long here. I don’t subscribe to some of its fundamental beliefs and I can’t see it making much headway in the Uk in its current format. I can understand why a Christian group would seek to evangelise but this is not for the Uk market.

Have you read the blurb about Matt Goodwin's latest book? It's all about criticising the "elite" (a la Brexit), the argument is contradictory because all it's doing is giving a different "elite" power.