I fear the rise of National Conservatism

Fleurpepper

Oreo

Amazes me how much spite attaches itself to anyone who did well at Oxford or Cambridge, I always assume it’s envy.
As to the subject of the OP, I don’t find it terrifying as it will never become mainstream in the conservative party, just as the extreme left won’t become mainstream in the labour party.

Amazes me how you can read the comments above as 'spite about anyone who did well at Oxford and Cambridge'

That's exactly what Goodwin does in his book - criticises the "Oxbridge elite".

It depends on how you interpret criticism Growstuff - spite is an emotional reaction and isn’t part of objective analysis/criticism. Interesting book though.

ronib

It depends on how you interpret criticism Growstuff - spite is an emotional reaction and isn’t part of objective analysis/criticism. Interesting book though.

I wasn't thinking about spite - more academic criticism, for want of a better word. I follow Goodwin on Twitter and wondered what was behind the push on his book - I see it's advertised on the National Conservative website. The reviews reckon it lacks originality. It's a rehash of old ideas. I'm reluctant to increase his profits by buying it, so maybe I'll have a look in a charity shop in a few weeks. The same ideas were behind a lot of the Brexit propaganda.

And, yes, the "new conservatives" know very well that people are jealous of Oxbridge elites and have weaponised the spite for their own ends. Sorry to introduce Godwin's Law, but the Nazis did the same - hence the emphasis on "Volk" (people).

My husband thinks that the new conservatives can come up with whatever new ideas and policies it likes. None of them are going to make any headway with the Civil Service so not sure if we can relax or not.

growstuff

And, yes, the "new conservatives" know very well that people are jealous of Oxbridge elites and have weaponised the spite for their own ends. Sorry to introduce Godwin's Law, but the Nazis did the same - hence the emphasis on "Volk" (people).

Is it jealousy, though, growstuff?. Or is it just frustration at the stranglehold the public school, Oxbridge, elites seem to have regained over so many aspects of public life?

It does seem to me that the people who have weaponised spite are the 'elite' who are in charge at the moment.

It’s all very worrying and bit sad. I was brought up in a quite right wing, conservative and slightly Church of England household, by lovely middle class parents who were kind, generous and loving people who brought me up to have a strong work ethic, believe in free enterprise, freedom of speech but most importantly freedom to think independently and make up my own mind about my ethics, morals, religious and political leanings - as a result I’m a middle political being, leaning towards the left, with a strong work ethic and strong sense of justice. My parents would not recognise this movement nor class it as conservatism if they were alive today. I agree with Germanshepherdmum that Farage is extremely dangerous and not to be trusted and do wonder what current ministers are doing lending their support to this ??

and do wonder what current ministers are doing lending their support to this ??

Showing their true colours?

I do find this alarming. It alarms me for several reasons - and among other things makes me even more sure we need Fair Voting. At the moment a party can and often does become the government with far far less than 50% support from the electorate.

MaizieD

and do wonder what current ministers are doing lending their support to this ??

Showing their true colours?

Sadly, think you might be right !!

ronib

My husband thinks that the new conservatives can come up with whatever new ideas and policies it likes. None of them are going to make any headway with the Civil Service so not sure if we can relax or not.

Well, what a silly argument!

What experience does he have of senior civil servants?

Oh dear God
I thought we had managed to sidestep this by leaving the EU and removing the pseudo-respectable fascist platform of the worst extremes of the Leavers.
All they are lacking is Trump!

Why is this organisation being called ‘the new conservatives’? They are not. This is not like ‘New Labour’, for whom I voted. It’s worrying that two senior Conservative politicians are going to speak at the conference. I can see Braverman aligning herself with the obviously racist (despite the denials) policies of this organisation and JRM with its religious policies including anti abortion. I want to know what they say, but have no intention of going along. I’d rather stick pins in my eyes.

Thank you for your post DaisyAnne. Forewarned is forearmed.

Growstuff he was a senior civil servant.

Germanshepherdsmum

Why is this organisation being called ‘the new conservatives’? They are not. This is not like ‘New Labour’, for whom I voted. It’s worrying that two senior Conservative politicians are going to speak at the conference. I can see Braverman aligning herself with the obviously racist (despite the denials) policies of this organisation and JRM with its religious policies including anti abortion. I want to know what they say, but have no intention of going along. I’d rather stick pins in my eyes.

"New conservatism" isn't a new concept. It's a political ideology which has been gaining traction in the US and some Eastern European countries.

This article explains it quite well:

yalebooks.yale.edu/2021/09/09/a-new-conservatism-in-a-world-after-liberalism/

It's "post-liberal". It argues that politics has been based on liberal thinking calling for equality and freedom and that this is a myth.

It's against ideas based on (for example) feminism, marriage equality, racial justice and multiculturalism.

It has very little to say about economic policy. The idea would be for "laissez faire" without state intervention, so the strong would dominate and the devil would take the hindmost.

ronib

Growstuff he was a senior civil servant.

In that case, he should know better and come up with a more adult comment.

‘the new conservatives’ and ‘new conservatism’ are not the same thing. This organisation is National Conservatism - another thing altogether. The connotations of the word ‘National’ are particularly worrying

Surely the true leanings of Gove, Braverman et al have been obvious for some while? As for Farage, dangerous? - very! He may not have been voted in but he was a major player in Brexit, which might not have happened without him. We should be very afraid.

I AM a party member. I will look at the evidence but as it is The New Statesman I will wait and see. Chilling is a very serious word. I note you did not find Diane Abbots comments about Jews “chilling”or it was not mentioned here. I found it very chilling indeed. In London I lived close to lots of Jewish people and am old enough to recall the holocaust.

The names you mention will not get far in the party mainstream nor in the national consciousness.

You mention GB News. I had a laugh as their audience is small and they are anti Socialist and pro Brexit …so what?

I have always listened to LBC but they have a few Lefties. Those of you who hate the Conservatives should listen to James O’Brien as he would suit your tastes.

Anybody here who starts on me in personal terms will be reported. I know nothing about this group but I will find out and will also investigate this stuff Daisy A has revealed.

Anything to keep us from the possible criminal behaviour gojng on in the SNP which supporters here refuse to discuss under the ploy of it being sub judice. This does not stop the journalists and other politicians discussing it.

Quite frankly othe Conservatives here may notnbe worried by the high mumber of Socialists here but I am. And I may not be as intellectual as some of you but I am not allowing this constant smearing of Conservatism by scare stories like this.

The was a long, extensive thread about Diane Abbott annie1

Did you miss it?

Also, there's no evidence at all of any criminal behaviour in the SNP, however much you hope there is.

The names you mention will not get far in the party mainstream nor in the national consciousness.

You could try the link that Fleurpepper posted. That's not the New Statesman, it's from the US, where this movement is originating.

The names you mention will not get far in the party mainstream nor in the national consciousness.

Michael Gove? Jacob Rees-Mogg? Suella Braverman?

I am not allowing this constant smearing of Conservatism by scare stories like this.

I don't think you have power to stop it, Anniel

This thread does smear Conservatism. I am a Conservative voter (but not a party member). I find the rise of this organisation, and its apparent endeavours to align itself with our Conservative party, far more chilling than what one ill-informed woman has written about Jewish people. I suggest you look at the NC website and familiarise yourself with their beliefs. You will then see that this is far from a scare story. The socialists here are equally horrified at what these people stand for.
Btw journalists reporting on matters within the SNP at present know exactly what boundaries they must stay within. They stick to facts and cannot indulgence in speculation as people on social media are apt to do - which would be contrary to the law. That is why discussions about the SNP’s difficulties are off limits here for the time being.

Good post GSM.