Bannau Brycheiniog. Yes or no.?

I suppose that means everything will now have to change name, like as an example Brecon Beacons College.

Casdon

Grandma70s

I’ve known a number of people from North Wales who barely spoke English, but I suppose it was a while ago. I grew up in Wirral, so Wales was just across the river Dee. I once had a boyfriend who had spoken no English until he went to school. His family still spoke Welsh at home.

North Wales is still the bastion of Welsh speakers, with another stronghold in West Wales. Most of the Welsh speakers I know were either brought up there, or have parents who were, but it’s not been the first language in South Wales for centuries.

It was recorded on the 1911 census which language you spoke.

I have a couple of friends who didn't speak English until they went to school (Mid-Wales) nor did DIL's grandfather either (N Wales).

Everywhere has dual places names, I'm surprised the Brecon Beacons didn't have both.

The park's CEO, Catherine Mealing-Jones, said of the change: "We'd always had the name Bannau Brycheiniog as the Welsh translation

It's not the Welsh translation, it's a completely different name.

Casdon

Poppyred

It was always Bannau Brycheiniog when I was in school. Brecon Beacons in English. Did we just forget the Welsh name??

Well, we didn’t forget if we live here, it’s already on the signs etc. it’s just not what it’s commonly called by the locals, or by anybody else who isn’t a Welsh speaker. I think it will be harder to change than Snowdon/Yr Wyddfa because the majority of the locals speak English so are less invested. We’ll see.

People will just say "I'm going walking in The Bannau".

I'm another who thinks the Welsh should pertain in Wales.

There are already quite a few places in North Wales that were known by English names when I was younger and are known by the Welsh name again now. I think it really only takes a generation to return to Welsh.

Callistemon21

Yes, we always call it Pen y Fan but the Sugar Loaf is always the Sugar Loaf! 🤔
Must get a grip of the Welsh language.

Our house has a Welsh name, I remember a neighbour years ago asking if we were Cornish as she thought it was Cornish.

Callistermon my husband was born in a house which looked across at Pen y Fan.

Mr C is Welsh. His view is it takes time to change a habit and he’s unlikely to call the area anything other than The Beacons for many months if not years.

Callistemon21

^The reason it was a fire long ago was, guess what, because they hadn’t invented LED bulbs^
Beacons were lit on the highest point in a chain across the country to warn of enemy invasions,

Used before warning signals on mobile phones became the norm. 😀

Exactly

My Welsh DH always referred to Pen-y-Fan as the Sugar Loaf. I spent 56 years trying to get my head round Welsh place names and became quite good at it, but Snowden will always be Snowdon and the Brecon Beacons ditto, as they no doubt will for DH’s family as only a handful of them speak any Welsh at all. I’m all for using the Welsh place names, but I agree that the “carbon neutral” thing hasn’t been thought through. It’s ridiculous.

I agree it should be known by it's Welsh name. As someone learning Welsh I think it's great - hard to pronounce perhaps but great

No reason why both names can't be used as with most other place names.

Mind you, there is a movement to eradicate English place names which will be confusing for any visitors to Wales.
And many locals too.

If the new name isn't a direct translation of the old, what does it mean?

Completely off topic but interesting...

The Gaelic name for Fort William is taken to mean "The garrison".

As you were.

Lizbethann55

If the new name isn't a direct translation of the old, what does it mean?

The Peaks of Brychan's Kingdom

Presumably Brecon is an anglicised form of Brychan
A beacon means a warning light eg as in lighthouse or a fire beacon on a hill.

Perhaps Brychan lit fires on those peaks as warnings.

Anniebach - help!!

I was wondering wher Anniebach was. She will set us all straight isn’t it ?

Thank you Callistemon. So presumably Brychan was the name of a chieftain or king? Sounds very old world romantic, though it was probably b****y hard.

Welsh for beacon is goleudai .

King Brychan Brycheiniog ? Seems born in Ireland, married several times, one wife named Gladys, many sons who went to
Cornwall to save the Cornish people , I am repeating what my history teacher taught, he dismissed the fact a church in Cornwall has a stained glass window of King Brychan !

The link re beacons, Snowdon, Penyfan, Cader Idris, Sugar Loaf in the Black Mountains etc , definitely beacons lit to warn
of English approaching.

It is said you can see Penyfan from Snowdon on a clear day, I couldn’t see it when I did Snowdon !

Thanks Anniebach. So he wasn't Welsh then either. The new name sounds nice. But I wonder how long it will be until it is generally accepted. Years ago the closed the older and smaller of our two hospitals and , without any warning, transferred the name to the much bigger hospital. You can always tell the age of anyone talking about it and of how long they they lived here, just by which name they use. I don't know of anyone who uses the new name easily. Not even my daughter and she works there.
I think the new name will be a process of evolution not revolution.

M0nica

I see no reason why the Welsh should not use the Welsh name and the English the English.

Lots of countries have different versions of a name for places
London - Londres (France) - Londra (Italian) The French call England Angleterre, the Germans talk of Grossbritannien.

It seems perfectly reasonable for the Welsh and English to use different names in different languages.

Using the actual country's name can cause confusion. I heard about the parents (both teachers) of friends driving around looking for the way to Florence and just seeing signs for Firenze. It's either arrogance, or ignorance (take your pick) not to know the names of places being visited in the name of the country and not the Anglicized version.

It is said you can see Penyfan from Snowdon on a clear day, I couldn’t see it when I did Snowdon !

It wasn't a clear day when I went up - is it ever 😀 - but must admit I funked the last few steps and had to go back down very slowly and carefully backwards on hands and knees to the bemusement of everyone waiting to climb the last bit.
🤢

Dinahmo

M0nica

I see no reason why the Welsh should not use the Welsh name and the English the English.

Lots of countries have different versions of a name for places
London - Londres (France) - Londra (Italian) The French call England Angleterre, the Germans talk of Grossbritannien.

It seems perfectly reasonable for the Welsh and English to use different names in different languages.

Using the actual country's name can cause confusion. I heard about the parents (both teachers) of friends driving around looking for the way to Florence and just seeing signs for Firenze. It's either arrogance, or ignorance (take your pick) not to know the names of places being visited in the name of the country and not the Anglicized version.

English and Welsh are both official languages in Wales.

So anyone would expect place names to be in both languages.

Remember the fight to have road signs in Welsh and English?

Anniebach, I thought I'd look up King Brychan as he sounds interesting but the first thing that came up on Google was a pub and carvery in Merthyr Tydfil 😁

Anniebach

Remember the fight to have road signs in Welsh and English?

Yes. I remember going on holiday in rural West Wales and the signposts at crossroads were turned round.
We saw some lovely, unexpected places!

I remember the discussions about re-introducing the teaching of Welsh in schools too.

Even fairly recently, some schools were put into special measures, the only problem being that the teaching of Weleh was inadequate.
And why was that? Because there were not enough Welsh speakers qualified to teach it.