I’m not counting my chickens

Dickens good points! But do we, the electorate, want one party government or is it more a continuation of tradition without the opportunity for reform? Feels a bit 19th century? Too late to move to Norway ….

ronib

Dickens good points! But do we, the electorate, want one party government or is it more a continuation of tradition without the opportunity for reform? Feels a bit 19th century? Too late to move to Norway ….

Having seen the opinions expressed on various SM sites when this subject is aired, it appears that ours is the British way, and that's good enough because, well, it's British. Presumably Belarus feels similarly.

If I point out that most other nations have a form of coalition I'm informed that, it's-up-to-them and we-govern-our-way. And if you don't like it, move somewhere else!

Of course, there are others who discuss it more rationally, pointing out the pros and cons!

Too late for me to return to Norway, although at a push we could probably manage it. But I'm fond of my country, and my Swedish partner is a dedicated Anglophile, having become a British citizen years ago, found us a home in The Cotswolds which he loves... so I will stay put!

ronib

I have a fantasy of a Parliament run for the benefit of the people. Does a coalition have better outcomes? I don’t favour one party rule however.

Don't you actually mean run for the people who follow the rules and do the right things?

I kind of get that impression from your comments on people who didn't get ID for this election.

Nope Maizie D

I am seriously surprised that retired teachers on this site don’t understand the concept of following procedures…..

How are people going to have a say in how they would like the government to run if they have been deprived of their vote?

Well it’s an interesting premise that you raise… let’s begin to ask does having a vote actually have any value?
Just look at where we are …,

ronib

I am seriously surprised that retired teachers on this site don’t understand the concept of following procedures…..

Well, I'm constantly surprised at the sheep like qualities of people on this site who follow the rules without questioning and even condemn those who may have perfectly valid reasons for not having conformed in this instance.

Not to mention uncritically accepting a completely unjustified limit to people's rights...

Follow the rules and you get to vote….
Exactly how that ultimately helps is anyone’s guess.

Of 47 nations surveyed in Europe—a place where, on other matters, American progressives often look to with envy—all but one country requires a government-issued photo voter ID to vote. The exception is the U.K., and even there voter IDs are mandatory in Northern Ireland for all elections and in parts of England for local elections.
www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/01/in-europe-voter-id-is-the-norm/

dayvidg

Of 47 nations surveyed in Europe—a place where, on other matters, American progressives often look to with envy—all but one country requires a government-issued photo voter ID to vote. The exception is the U.K., and even there voter IDs are mandatory in Northern Ireland for all elections and in parts of England for local elections.
www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/01/in-europe-voter-id-is-the-norm/

I can't decipher if the ID is national identity cards, or if there is specific ID for voting?

I'm just a tad suspicious of the government's apparent sudden interest in voter-fraud because there's been little hoo-ha about such fraud over the last decade or so - though obviously I might have missed it in the news. What I mean is, we don't seem to be a nation that is plagued by it.

And why is an older person's buss pass acceptable but a travel card for a younger person NOT? Do they believe young people are more likely to be fraudulent voters? Why make it more difficult for young people?

Unless there's a logical reason why one pass is acceptable but the other is not - then of course people will be suspicious. Either the thinking is that the young will be more inclined to vote fraudulently, or they will be more likely to vote for the Left... nothing else makes much sense. And it is discriminatory.

How many people believe that voter fraud is a significant problem in the British electoral system, I wonder.

Kier Starmer hyper excited on the lunchtime news. Labour did very badly around here and we never even had any literature through the door from them. Never saw a single Labour sign up anywhere.

I think he has conveniently forgotten that Labour did so badly in the last election that the results were the worst since WWII. Strong Labour seats that had never been Conservative were lost to them all over the country.

In my younger electioneering days, we used to quote a, no doubt, apocryphal, Irish saying 'vote early, vote often'.

But on the mainland, as far as I know, the problem, and that fairly small, is with postal votes.

Perhaps it was introduced to bring us in alignment with other countries. Possibly the relevant authorities know something we do not know.

I was surprised to see one of the papers suggesting that it disadvantaged older people. I am sure some were, but most older people have driving licences, passports, bus passes or other identification, so I wouldn't think the numbers having problems were any higher than in any other age-group.

Just another case of casual institutionalised agism.

MOnica- and yet- OAP Bus passes- approved for voting
Young People's Travel Card - NOT??? Both photo ID!

Fleurpepper

MOnica- and yet- OAP Bus passes- approved for voting
Young People's Travel Card - NOT??? Both photo ID!

I think it is to do with the fact that Pensioners Bus Passes are issued by the Council and you have to verify who you are, age etc to obtain one.

When my AC had Young Peoples Travel Cards you just rock up to the local Bus Station Office with a photo from a Photo Booth and hey presto you have your card.

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper

MOnica- and yet- OAP Bus passes- approved for voting
Young People's Travel Card - NOT??? Both photo ID!

I think it is to do with the fact that Pensioners Bus Passes are issued by the Council and you have to verify who you are, age etc to obtain one.

When my AC had Young Peoples Travel Cards you just rock up to the local Bus Station Office with a photo from a Photo Booth and hey presto you have your card.

When my AC had Young Peoples Travel Cards you just rock up to the local Bus Station Office with a photo from a Photo Booth and hey presto you have your card.

I appreciate that there's a difference in the standards applied to obtaining the cards, but it's still a photo of the holder, with their name and the only other thing that the young voter has to get correct to get a ballot paper is their address. I really cannot see that all over the country there are hundreds of young people who have obtained travel cards under false pretences, by pretending to be someone they aren't and have managed to register to vote at the address belonging to the person in whose name they have got the card...

To make any difference at all to the result of most* elections this would have to be a well organised and widespread operation.

Why are we fostering an atmosphere of widespread distrust of 'others'?

(*yes, I know that sometimes results are decided by a very few votes)

How many people believe that voter fraud is a significant problem in the British electoral system, I wonder.

Well, a few people on this forum seem to think that it is, though without any evidence beyond their belief. And I understand that this is a message being put about by some tories.. falling on receptive ears?

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper

MOnica- and yet- OAP Bus passes- approved for voting
Young People's Travel Card - NOT??? Both photo ID!

I think it is to do with the fact that Pensioners Bus Passes are issued by the Council and you have to verify who you are, age etc to obtain one.

When my AC had Young Peoples Travel Cards you just rock up to the local Bus Station Office with a photo from a Photo Booth and hey presto you have your card.

Bus passes for older people are accepted as voter ID.

From memory, I applied for mine online and sent a digital photo. I guess Essex County Council checked my address against the electoral role, but nobody checked whether the photo is actually me. For all they know, I could have used the address and details of a friend who didn't want a bus pass.

Primrose53

Kier Starmer hyper excited on the lunchtime news. Labour did very badly around here and we never even had any literature through the door from them. Never saw a single Labour sign up anywhere.

I think he has conveniently forgotten that Labour did so badly in the last election that the results were the worst since WWII. Strong Labour seats that had never been Conservative were lost to them all over the country.

I expect Labour knows that, so didn't waste its money and energy on you - same here!

MaizieD

How are people going to have a say in how they would like the government to run if they have been deprived of their vote?

I feel like shouting, no one has been deprived of a vote. Personal responsibility comes to mind. As one voter said, "its not as though we weren't advised about it." How come then Labour won seats, people obviously didn't forget their ID, did they !!!

I’ve had a Disabled Persons bus pass for years, last time it was renewed they accepted the photo I uploaded for my Blue Badge. I’m not sure if it will change to an older persons bus pass when I have to renew it next year.

Fleurpepper The point I was making was that despite newspapers suggesting that those being turned away were distressed pensioners (institutional ageism), in fact the problem was probably spread evenly across all age groups - the differential treatment of bus passes was an example of how it could happen.

On the other hand turnout was, I believe around 30% and I would suggest voters were skewed towards older voters.

Freya5

MaizieD

How are people going to have a say in how they would like the government to run if they have been deprived of their vote?

I feel like shouting, no one has been deprived of a vote. Personal responsibility comes to mind. As one voter said, "its not as though we weren't advised about it." How come then Labour won seats, people obviously didn't forget their ID, did they !!!

What does Labour winning seats have to do with it?

I am so glad to hear that you are an efficient and law abiding citizen who does everything you are told to do by the government and know about every new regulation that the government passes.

Some people aren't like that. You just have to accept that some people are different from you and stop blaming them for being different. I'm afraid that shouting 'personal responsibility' just doesn't do the trick...

I have just being looking at the overall results. While the Conservatives are doing badly - as expected, Labour is not doing particularly well.

Only half the seats lost by the Conservatives have gone to Labour. The other half have gone to the Lib Dems and Green party. In fact those last two parties between them have won more new council seats than Labour.

The Conservatives have been wiped out on my local council. Labour disappeared some years ago. We now have 23 Lib Dems and 3 Green Party councillors

I hope that we'll have a better idea of who was turned away when the Returning Officers have reported their numbers to the Electoral Commission and the data has been compiled and analysed.

Until then it's a bit pointless to argue about it.