Dogs shot by Met police

Gillycats, this is very naive and sadly, untrue.

' Poor dogs but no dog is dangerous. It’s how they are trained, that is the problem. '

These dogs are bred specifically for agression and fighting, from day one. And then one aggressive dog breeding with another, and on and on. Training of course has a massive role, but genetics and breeding too.

Poor dogs are the victims, for sure. When used in dog fighting and badger baiting (yes, it is illegal, but it still happens, that is 100% sure- I know)- they get very badly injured and not taken to vets as would be reported. They get stitched by owners, with the wrong tools and without anesthesia- and kept away for a while. Often get infections, etc- and suffer terribly. Owners think that it is great as it makes them tougher. If they refuse to fight, they are used ot train others- alive.

Gillycats

Poor dogs but no dog is dangerous. It’s how they are trained, that is the problem. Pit bulls and Am bull terriers make great pets but they, like all dogs, need responsible ownership. If you’re going to ban these breeds then you need to ban all large breeds, including German Shepherds, Rotties, and what about the smaller breeds. They’ve been responsible for deaths too. That poor dog walker that tragically died was attacked by various breeds, including Dachshunds. So should we ban them too? The needs to be strict laws on breeding and ownership. That is the only way forward.

I don’t actually agree. I think some breeds are bred because they’re aggressive. Now, this is from memory but I’m sure I read that years ago, when Rottweilers were the dogs that caused most of the attacks that some Rottweilers were bred to be more aggressive because they were used for police work but that that particular breeding did sometimes make itself way into dogs that were sold as pets. A reputable breeder will breed for temperament as much as conformation/breed standard and any dog that shows aggression shouldn’t be bred from. I can’t help but feel that some of these bull breeds are bred to be aggressive.It’s one reason why, at dog shows, the dogs have to show that they are happy to be handled and examined by strangers. Also people buy certain breeds because they like their appearance eg Belgian Shepherds are very territorial wherever they are and need experienced/knowledgeable owners.

Yes, some are bred to be aggressive and are trained to fight. It goes on here even though it's illegal and in other countries where it is banned too.

In some countries, dog registration at local and on national register, with vet approval and report-means it is impossible to own such dogs- they would be reported by neighbours or other people in community- and dealt with.

Glorianny bit misinformed but if that’s what you want to believe you fire on. Dog rescues up and down the country would disagree with you and I think they’re considerably more informed.

I hadn’t seen the video in which the dogs were shot when I posted earlier. It’s clear the police tried to negotiate with the owner to relinquish the dogs. He was uncooperative, agitated and the dogs picked up in the tension. As they’d already attacked a woman and given the owner’s response to police, the dogs getting agitated, they’d no choice byt to shoot. The officer who shot but failed to kill the dog instantly is probably feeling bad enough without the woman shouting she’s recording .

I have always lived with dogs. I’m increasingly cautious about where my dogs are walked. My local park backs on to the kind of estate Dickens refers to. I’ve stopped using it because of the young men swaggering about with their bull breed crosses, who are always pulling, never under control walking at their owners side. . They’ve no idea how to handle or train them.
Some breeds are more prone to aggression. The kind of people breeding xl bullies and similar breeds breed for aggressive temperament. Responsible breeders go for calm temperament

I don’t know how we impose it but dog breeding, dog ownership needs review in this ciuntry

Incidentally, the top breed for attacks are Jack Russells. So they’re bred for their aggressive tendencies then…..

Aveline

I'm always happy to see well behaved dogs in pubs. I've seen some lovely dogs there.

Me too.
I’d choose a dog-friendly pub over a no-dogs one any day.

Gillycats

Incidentally, the top breed for attacks are Jack Russells. So they’re bred for their aggressive tendencies then…..

The most vicious dog I've ever known was a Jack Russell - do I think all Jack Russells are vicious? Absolutely not. Blame the deed, not the breed. There was a time when Dobermans were the 'devil dogs', then it was Rottweilers, now it seems to be Staffies (which many people wrongly confuse with pit bulls).

Jack Russell’s are aggressive when working, they’re fantastic rat killers. One grabbed my huge Lan round the neck, unprovoked. Unfortunately, my lab now dislikes yappy jacks. The other breed listed as likely to bite is the labrador. Hard to believe but true. Whether it’s due to how many of them there are, who knows.

Every drug user I have ever known has kept at least one aggressive dog. They kept them for protection for when people come to collect drug debt money. I had to visit homes for child protection reasons. So sad for the children living in the midst of the chaos.

Iam64

Jack Russell’s are aggressive when working, they’re fantastic rat killers. One grabbed my huge Lan round the neck, unprovoked. Unfortunately, my lab now dislikes yappy jacks. The other breed listed as likely to bite is the labrador. Hard to believe but true. Whether it’s due to how many of them there are, who knows.

We spoke to a vet on the beach years ago that told us to be wary of Labradors. A very large Labrador ran up to us on the beach a few weeks ago. Its owner was a long way away and it started barking at us: it really shook me up. Having said that the problem might be that people are less wary of dogs that they regard as non dangerous whilst forgetting that all dogs can bite. Years ago a lot of golden cocker spaniels were nasty because they were inbred to get the solid colour. @ 1 in 14 had to be pts: they would snap for no reason. I think they’re ok now. I’d never put my hand near to a Jack Russell. Then again I wouldn’t worry that one might kill me, unlike an XL Bully.

Agression can be in the genes, a case in point, cocker spaniels. Chocolate-box prettiness but I dealt with a couple of dogs with cocker rage & it is terrifying. Linked to an abnormally high tolerance to sedative drugs too, so clipping / grooming an affected dog was barely possible. Breeders have made a point of not breeding from affected lines & the problem seems to be receding. Likewise golden retrivers - what could look softer? - they had a significant problem with a vicious strain in the breed about 35 years ago. Dealt with through careful breeding and records & hopefully they'll regain some popularity.
Not to say that careful, consistent, patient training isn't invaluable in producing a calm, good-natured dog, but heredity also matters. As carnivores who killed live prey in the wild, our dogs, whatever breed, have the equipment to maul - but the vast majority of our pets wouldn't dream of using it.

Cocker rage was largely bred out by responsible breeders. Sadly, the breed has become overly popular and that combines with the popularity of cockerpoos has led to unscrupulous people exploiting the breed for a quick buck. Little attention to health or temperament. Rescues are overwhelmed with cocker mixes showing behavioural problems. Cockers can be resource guarders and that’s a common complaint from owners relinquishing to rescues. Another issue is owners wanting to recoup cash by selling rather than re-homing through a breed specific rescue.

Allsorts

What the Met did was correct, but the real villains are tge owners, they are the ones to be held responsible. What about the lady attacked? She’s the victim. The ones responsible can’t be disposed of, but they should bear the costs, banned from keeping animals for life and imprisoned. They should have costs to the victim made from their own purse. We are too soft on criminals who breed dogs to be aggressive, not the dogs fault.

...but the real villains are tge owners, they are the ones to be held responsible.

Hear, hear!

I'd also like to see them banned for life from owning another dog - or cat, come to that. I can't believe a spell in prison would turn them from an irresponsible idiot into a thoughtful, considerate owner. And from what I can glean, some of these idiot dog owners do not always treat their animals kindly, leaving them tied up outside for extended periods and even hitting them to encourage them to be 'obedient'.

there is a good reason why refuges and animal charities strongly recommend never to give kittens or cats away. I will not put it into words.

I remember the story of a woman who looked nice and dressed nicely, who used to go to homes to collect unwanted cats!

When my Border Collie was quite a small puppy he was attacked and badly bitten by a labrador. I remember the vet having to pick his hair out of the bites because the lab's teeth had driven it into the bites. He was frightened of other dogs for the rest of his life which meant he was sometimes a nightmare to take out.

When I was a child both Rottweillers and Staffies were known as lovely family dogs, but that was before the thugs got hold of them.

People complaining about the dogs being shot need to remember that a farmer is entitled to shoot dogs roaming on his land. Anyone who has seen sheep that have been savaged knows why. The sweetest family pet may become quite different faced with a sheep or lamb.

Some ten years ago I was attacked by a dog when walking local footpaths. I was unharmed, bar some bruising because both dogs were wearing muzzles, which means the owner knew they were dangerous and could attack people. The woman who was walking them could barely control them, they were too strong for her, which was why one was able to reach me and leap up and hit my arm very hard with its muzzled mouth.

I was left with a couple of nasty bruises. We do not keep animals, so I neither had an animal with me, nor did I smell of animals. I was just someone walking in the opposite direction to the dogs and their owner on a widish country path.

I have no time at all for owners with dogs they know can be dangerous. Oerhaps they could shoot the owners when they shoot the dogs (OK, not serious, before someone does take the last remark serious and explains how gentle the owners really are, if they are retrained and taught to prefer cats.)

Gillycats

Glorianny bit misinformed but if that’s what you want to believe you fire on. Dog rescues up and down the country would disagree with you and I think they’re considerably more informed.

I think you will find that all dog rescue centres will put down dogs they find to be untrainable and aggressive. Aggression is party genetic and partly training. But if you imagine that there are not still people breeding dogs purely for aggression you are sadly mistaken. They may be illegal but dogfights still happen. And for some people aggression in a dog is a desirable trait.

It is clear that there are people who want an aggressive dog to boost their macho image; and there are unscrupulous breeders who are happy to oblige, and line their pockets.

The real issue is what can be done about this. There needs to be an enforceable law to deal with it - I have no idea how this might be formulated or put into practice, but it would be good to know that this is under consideration at the very least.

Since the police were able to shoot the dogs in this instance, it would appear there is enforceable law in place already.

It doesn't deal with the unscrupulous breeders of course.

Baggs

It doesn't deal with the unscrupulous breeders of course.

I bet there is a law that deals with that, just not being enforced maybe?

Baggs

Since the police were able to shoot the dogs in this instance, it would appear there is enforceable law in place already.

Unfortunately the enforcement often happens after a child has been mauled to death - I am thinking of something a bit more pro-active and preventative!

Baggs

Since the police were able to shoot the dogs in this instance, it would appear there is enforceable law in place already.

I think Luckygirl may mean an enforceable law which would prevent such situations arising in future, ie laws about breeding and ownership of such aggressive breeds should be no more stringent.

Some aggressive breeds are not on the banned list because it has not been kept up to date with some newer or imported breeds.