Lords lay into the governments illegal migration bill

I find the belief that we as a nation should be able to pick and choose quite depressing. Even when it is repeated that other countries have accepted more immigrants there is still this insistence that we are somehow special. I do know that for years we have taken in immigrants and I believe the reason for that was sometimes our history.
Isn't it odd that our own Home Secretary can't fully clarify what the safe and legal routes are?

Germanshepherdsmum

OK volver, as your thought processes are infinitely more sophisticated than mine, tell me how we house all the UK homeless and put those in substandard housing into decent accommodation, give them proper healthcare, educate their children, give benefits to those unable to earn a living wage, and at the same time do likewise for the asylum seekers already here and those arriving on pretty much a daily basis. It’s going to be a huge job but you, I believe, are used to project managing huge jobs. Pray tell me how this might be achieved, from inception to completion.

erm...

To start with, get shot of the Tories and all those who believe in their misinformation, lies and inhumanity.

That would be a start.

I'll do you a Gantt Chart.

It seems to me that people are muddling such factors at push/pull immigrants and asylum seekers.

Asylum seekers are the smallest group of the total net migration and some - a minority will be returned from whence they came because in fact they form part of the “push” migration who are simply seeking a better life for themselves and their family.

The pull factor is the largest group where they are “invited” to come to the U.K. by various agencies, like companies, government, NHS etc because they have the skills that the U.K. is lacking. This is by far the largest group, who of course still have to be housed etc.

Then of course there is the whole thing in reverse. No U.K. asylum seekers of course, but undoubtedly people seeking a better life in another country as well as those being offered employment by companies, health services and government etc abroad

V3 what time will your chart be ready?

Well, as GSM says, it's a huge job, so probably when the Tories get voted out.

Ten years then?

Just a first draft would be handy whilst you finesse the details, before you get shot of me.

Point one: Vote out the Tory government

Point two: Stop gaslighting the British People and live up to our obligations

Point three: Stop spending money on cronies, spend it on the country instead.

That'll do to be going on with ...

Sorry, that is not a plan. It’s rhetoric.

I never said it was a plan. Those are objectives and work packages.

The operationalisation comes later.

That's part of the problem here, I think. People don't want a measured plan with objectives, they want a miracle.

So you probably agree that the two objectives cannot be fulfilled alongside one another but don’t want to admit it.

No, I don't believe that at all.

BTW, there's 3 objectives.

This job's going to be a struggle, but not for the reasons you think.

2 objectives - look after our own and at the same time look after the ever increasing numbers of migrants. Or indeed you could say one objective - to achieve both at the same time, which you say is possible but don’t say how, and I say is not.

Well.

In your opinion its possible to look after our own but not the "others". So that implies that there is a limit on the amount of money available - enough for "our own" but not the "others". It's some coincidence that there is just the right amount of money to look after one group but not two.

Is there just the right amount of money to look after the homeless, the ex-servicemen, the old; but as soon as we add those fleeing from persecution who just happen to have been born in another country, the money magically evaporates...

This attitude is despicable. We're a rich country and we have responsibilities. If the government don't want to pay for the "foreigners", that's inexcusable and its playing to the gallery - the gallery filled with those who are basically, well, selfish.

We don’t have the money to house and otherwise look after our own though do we? And our ability to do so is eroded by what we spend on people arriving almost daily by boat. Yes, we have responsibilities - and our first responsibility is to our own, many of whom have paid taxes here for decades and even fought for their country.

We do have that money.

We've just decided to spend it on something someone else.

How very cryptic. We have enough money to house all the homeless (in decent permanent accommodation) and to prevent anyone going hungry or being unable to turn on the heat. How much money is that and where has it spent? We’re not talking duff PPE money here, which you’re probably hinting at again, but very probably trillions.

V3 how do you measure how rich we are?

Off the top of my head...

Boris's legal bills.
Mone's yacht.
Tax money from Rees-Mogg, Amazon, anybody else that we allow to get away with it.

Does it never occur to you to ask how other countries manage to keep their people's heating bills at acceptable levels? How other countries haven't got record numbers of food banks? How other countries prioritise housing their populations? And yet still manage to accept and treat humanely, thousands upon thousands of asylum seekers?

Don't imply that it's pie in the sky. Every country has its problems. But most Western countries aren't in thrall to a cabal which haven't got their population's best interests at heart but just want to line their own pockets.

Or even just plant in them some understanding of the international law and conventions regarding refugees and asylum seekers... and how the tories have been engineering the current situation over the past few years

agreed, but as we know, many, even with a working knowledge of the law, are unhappy with 'illegal immigrants' as they erroneously call them; mind you, the learned Home Secretary refers to people as 'illegals' as well, and to think she was once a QC and even Attorney General.

ronib

V3 how do you measure how rich we are?

I don't, the IMF does.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

I often wonder how many of the 'look after our own people first' group (not necessarily on GN) do actually do so?

The IMF isn’t exactly glorifying the UK economy for 2023… worst on track etc. maybe just get used to the idea that we’re a lot poorer than we would like to be?

But still a lot better off than Sudan.

Or Ukraine.

Or Afghanistan.

Or Syria.

Or...

See where I'm going with this?