Lords lay into the governments illegal migration bill

Why do you think the students' dependents can't be working?

Not all students are 17 years old, you know.

volver I would be surprised of any of the students were seventeen, because students are normally eighteen when they enter university. The clue is in the word ‘dependents.’ And I fail to see how eighteen year olds have dependents. However some of the students are post grad and so they are older and therefore may have dependents.

The dependents of students are allowed to work apart from doctors or dentists in training. FYI

Foreign students bring in a deal of money so they will always be encouraged. As for their dependants few 18 to 21 year olds will have dependants unless aged parents are considered their childrens’ Dependants which is highly unlikely.

maddyone I should have said "thank you" for what you wrote at 10:05, I meant to but I forgot.

I just had a quick look at the governments info about students' dependants.

Direct lift from there:

Your partner and child must each have a certain amount of money available to them. This is in addition to the money you must have to support yourself.

How much money they need depends on where you will be studying. They must have either:

£845 a month (for up to 9 months) for courses in London
£680 a month (for up to 9 months) for courses outside London
If you’re applying at the same time as your partner or child (you’re applying together as a family), you’ll need to prove you have both money to pay for your course and to support yourself and additional money for each of them.

So, they have to support themselves. Another urban myth exploded.

Students with dependants isn’t that unusual. I was one at both undergrad and 2 x postgrad level, and was surrounded by others. The University of Sussex is just one that, as a result, has family accommodation, and it pretty much always has a long waiting list.
Others that I know of include Oxford (mainly for postgrads), Exeter, Bristol, Lancaster, Manchester, Leeds, Southampton, York, Queen Mary’s University of London, School of Tropical Medicine (only postgrads, obviously) . I’m sure there are others.

volver thanks for that

However I wasn’t actually talking about dependents being supported financially by the British government, but it’s good to know that they need a certain amount of money to support themselves, although the amounts mentioned don’t seem large and possibly wouldn’t support them completely. However, you will notice I mentioned infrastructure meaning housing, schools for their children (which we do pay for) health care (which we do pay for) use of public transport or the many pot holed roads, increased traffic meaning increased pollution, and so on. There is certainly a cost to the British government although of course students buy food and other items which adds to the economy and they pay fees to the universities which helps fund them. Obviously it’s multi faceted. But our crumbling and inadequate infrastructure means that this policy is being pursued without proper thought as to the consequences on the people who are already here, and in my opinion is misguided, until or unless, proper facilities are put in place to accommodate all these extra people.

The dependants will presumably require healthcare and, in the case of children, school places - and if they are not living in university-owned or privately-owned student-only accommodation they will need to rent private housing suitable for families, thereby taking it out of the market, will they not? Is this not an additional burden on already overstretched resources?

X posts maddy.

Exactly my point GSM.

Yes GSM

maddyone you said that we diverge on immigration and we do.

The reason we have a crumbling and inadequate infrastructure - or that people believe that we do, I should say - is that the Government haven't invested in anything for years. Yet, for many years, we have welcomed students and their dependants. Many of whom will want to stay here and give us the benefits of their knowledge and skills.

But now we say we can't accommodate them. So what's changed? Priorities have changed, that's what. An ability to see past short term solutions and build a society that will work properly for years to come. The present government doesn't like foreigners, who they think are going to come and use up all our precious resources. Or maybe they don't think that, but they pander to the people that do. They think that the only thing that matters is how much money a person has. If you're rich, come on in. Have a seat in the Lords and give me a backhander. You're an award winning artist, fallen on hard times? Tough, off you go.

volver3

maddyone you said that we diverge on immigration and we do.

The reason we have a crumbling and inadequate infrastructure - or that people believe that we do, I should say - is that the Government haven't invested in anything for years. Yet, for many years, we have welcomed students and their dependants. Many of whom will want to stay here and give us the benefits of their knowledge and skills.

But now we say we can't accommodate them. So what's changed? Priorities have changed, that's what. An ability to see past short term solutions and build a society that will work properly for years to come. The present government doesn't like foreigners, who they think are going to come and use up all our precious resources. Or maybe they don't think that, but they pander to the people that do. They think that the only thing that matters is how much money a person has. If you're rich, come on in. Have a seat in the Lords and give me a backhander. You're an award winning artist, fallen on hard times? Tough, off you go.

Good post, V3 👏

maddyone

volver thanks for that

However I wasn’t actually talking about dependents being supported financially by the British government, but it’s good to know that they need a certain amount of money to support themselves, although the amounts mentioned don’t seem large and possibly wouldn’t support them completely. However, you will notice I mentioned infrastructure meaning housing, schools for their children (which we do pay for) health care (which we do pay for) use of public transport or the many pot holed roads, increased traffic meaning increased pollution, and so on. There is certainly a cost to the British government although of course students buy food and other items which adds to the economy and they pay fees to the universities which helps fund them. Obviously it’s multi faceted. But our crumbling and inadequate infrastructure means that this policy is being pursued without proper thought as to the consequences on the people who are already here, and in my opinion is misguided, until or unless, proper facilities are put in place to accommodate all these extra people.

Yes, they certainly do pay university fees - in most cases, three times the amount home students pay. Don't underestimate how much they're worth to the HE sector, which couldn't afford to run some courses without them, and the economy as a whole. Not only that, but many on Masters and postgraduate courses return to their home countries and go into senior jobs or academia and pay an important role in international networking, which benefits the UK.

Volver 3 yes as a bit of qualitative opinion your post was average. Bit short on the quantitative side wouldn’t you agree? Demographic trends - growth of migration from the Blair years - lack of affordable homes/healthcare provision etc. Not so simple as you claim. Bit too mono causal.

Students from other countries isn't exclusive to Britain. My daughter's PhD is being funded by her Scandinavian place of residence.

Growth of migration from the Blair years?

Here's a nice graph.

Blair left office in 2007, in case you'd forgotten. Huge net immigration since then, not because of Blair but because of tory policies, I suspect.

I'll let someone else talk about why healthcare etc has declined over the last 13 years, but I'm thinking its pretty obvious.

Don't try to "out-quantitative" me ronib, it could get messy.

V3 the only thing that is messy is your interpretation of the graph.

Unfortunately your nice graph is totally illegible even when I try to enlarge it.

Oh really? It has scales on the x- and y- axes, and a legend. Even a source.

Maybe you are just having trouble interpreting it.

When I say it’s totally illegible I mean just that. Don’t be so insulting.

Oh, OK.

Maybe you need a bigger screen.

www.statista.com/statistics/283287/net-migration-figures-of-the-united-kingdom-y-on-y/

Germanshepherdsmum

When I say it’s totally illegible I mean just that. Don’t be so insulting.

I can see all the figures on my iPad Germanshepherdsmum, I just clicked on the image to enlarge it, then used my fingers to make it bigger still, it’s very clear then. Statista is a reliable source, it uses government data. And it’s revealing. .

I did exactly the same but can’t read it.