Lords lay into the governments illegal migration bill

Siope

Here we go again, conflating asylum seekers and immigrants for other reasons (marriage, work, study). There is no such thing, despite this government’s lies, as an illegal route for genuine asylum seekers, which, as evidence from the government itself proves, the vast majority of those on the boats are.

Well said Siope!

So it's OK to pay people smugglers even though you have passed through safe countries?

Seems so. And destroy your papers.

Are you sure you understand the law?

I am. And the law does not preclude me from questioning why people make a particular choice, nor from disliking that choice, the result of it and in some cases the efforts to make identification impossible. I have at no point said that choice is not legally available to them.

Nicenanny3

So it's OK to pay people smugglers even though you have passed through safe countries?

What other routes would you suggest?

Oh, and I didn’t say I thought using smugglers was a good thing, I said it’s not correct to conflate asylum seekers and those immigrating to the UK for other reasons.

They don’t come wearing labels - it can be well nigh impossible to prove whether someone with no papers is a genuine asylum seeker or an economic migrant. Or even to prove their age. Hence the vast delays in ‘processing’ them.

Perhaps if you are genuinely fleeing war and persecution finding refuge in the first safe country would be welcomed, not paying people smugglers and picking where in the world you would like to live. Surely that is morally wrong, paying criminals to help you jump the queue while others wait in refugee camps.

Surely the "vast delays" in processing asylum seekers is because there aren't sufficient staff to deal with them. I accept that destroying their papers may not help but I'm not quite sure why they should need to do that.

Germanshepherdsmum

I am. And the law does not preclude me from questioning why people make a particular choice, nor from disliking that choice, the result of it and in some cases the efforts to make identification impossible. I have at no point said that choice is not legally available to them.

Good, as long as you understand that the U.K. is breaking international law in closing off safe routes to all but those it chooses to let in then fine.

Nicenanny3

Perhaps if you are genuinely fleeing war and persecution finding refuge in the first safe country would be welcomed, not paying people smugglers and picking where in the world you would like to live. Surely that is morally wrong, paying criminals to help you jump the queue while others wait in refugee camps.

It isn’t law - nothing morally wrong in trying to reach your country of choice.

15:15Dinahmo

Surely the "vast delays" in processing asylum seekers is because there aren't sufficient staff to deal with them. I accept that destroying their papers may not help but I'm not quite sure why they should need to do that.

Errr because they are not genuine could be the reason and they are not who they say they are.

You do have to ask how geographically the UK could ever be likely to be the first safe country. And if it were, would you be happy to take everyone without expecting others to take their share?

GSM, that is not the reason, as you would see if you did even tiniest amount of research.

I thought Kris Guru-Murthy was magnificent last night on Channel 4 news, calling out the lies of the pathetic Jenrick.

The same old myths being churned out here, I see. Can I say this loud enough THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN ILLEGAL ASYLUM SEEKER

If someone applies for, and is refused asylum, and then absconds, then they are in this country illegally. We are all entitled to our opinion, but I do wish some would stop repeating right wing rhetoric.

One more thing; having sympathy for asylum seekers, being 'woke' if you like, does not mean supporting the vile people smugglers and their evil exploitation of desperate people. I would like to see people dealt with humanely, swiftly, and having recourse to legal routes in the first instance, thus cutting out the people smugglers, what is so controversial about that?

I have just looked up figures for countries accepting refugees. The top 10 ranges from Iran with 840k through Poland with 1.21 million, Russian Federation with1.45 million, Germany 2.2 million and the highest is Turkey with 3.67 million. Amongst the list are Ethiopia, Bangladesh, India, Uganda and Pakistan.

And the UK is complaining about 364,501 refugees, asylum seekers and stateless people as at November 2022.
The French figures (for 2021) were 499,914.

Exactly HPQ

Well said HPQ!

There is absolutely nothing illegal about coming to the UK and applying for asylum - even if the chances it will be accepted are slim.

I'm appalled that some MPs are using the word "illegally" inaccurately. They really should know better.

Nicenanny3

Perhaps if you are genuinely fleeing war and persecution finding refuge in the first safe country would be welcomed, not paying people smugglers and picking where in the world you would like to live. Surely that is morally wrong, paying criminals to help you jump the queue while others wait in refugee camps.

I have a solution to that one, if you feel so sorry for all the people in refugee camps - let them all come to the UK! Then nobody would be disadvantaged.

Nicenanny3, do you think it is morally wrong to jump the queue by paying for private health care ?

paddyann54

For "British" read English FleurpepperScottish values are very different .WE need immigration, people are welcome here and its rare to hear the bigotted hate rhetoric that we hear on the right wing ENGLISH media .

Plenty of bigoted hate rhetoric at a Celtic/Rangers match!

15:50growstuff

Nicenanny3

Perhaps if you are genuinely fleeing war and persecution finding refuge in the first safe country would be welcomed, not paying people smugglers and picking where in the world you would like to live. Surely that is morally wrong, paying criminals to help you jump the queue while others wait in refugee camps.

I have a solution to that one, if you feel so sorry for all the people in refugee camps - let them all come to the UK! Then nobody would be disadvantaged.

So you think it's morally OK to pay the people smuggling gangs. They are making millions out of other people's misery and until the boats are stopped will continue to do so

Nicenanny3

15:15Dinahmo

Surely the "vast delays" in processing asylum seekers is because there aren't sufficient staff to deal with them. I accept that destroying their papers may not help but I'm not quite sure why they should need to do that.

Errr because they are not genuine could be the reason and they are not who they say they are.

😄
It’s obvs to most people why they would destroy their papers nicenanny3 but there are some real naive people out there who wonder why they do it.