Lords lay into the governments illegal migration bill

westendgirl

Nicenanny3, do you think it is morally wrong to jump the queue by paying for private health care ?

The two things cannot be compared.
If anyone feels it’s wrong to access private health care it won’t help the poor soul at the bottom of the NHS waiting list as doctors and consultants and surgeons all do private work as well as their NHS cases.They’ll just see the next private patient.

16:21Oreo

I agree Oreo and out of touch with normal people just like Justin Welby and most of the dinosaurs in the House of Lords who want to stop this bill but offer no alternatives.

Something has to be tried to stop the constant flow of boats arriving.Quite apart from the drowning risk we can’t take the numbers of people in here, housing and such.It has to be stopped.Australia managed to do it.

Dinahmo

I have just looked up figures for countries accepting refugees. The top 10 ranges from Iran with 840k through Poland with 1.21 million, Russian Federation with1.45 million, Germany 2.2 million and the highest is Turkey with 3.67 million. Amongst the list are Ethiopia, Bangladesh, India, Uganda and Pakistan.

And the UK is complaining about 364,501 refugees, asylum seekers and stateless people as at November 2022.
The French figures (for 2021) were 499,914.

But look at the size of those countries compared to us!! I wish people would stop making out this country has not welcomed people because we have and for centuries.

It’s not a bad thing at all to pull up the drawbridge every now and then and look after the population we already have before allowing others in. It’s basic housekeeping! I am sure we all feed our families first before feeding everybody else in the street.

Justin Welby is a Christian ( I expect that you knew that) and is following the exhortations of the New Testament to speak out when his conscience dictates. Christians are encouraged to embrace opprobrium as a consequence: he would have expected responses such as those from Nicenanny. What else would you expect of him?

As global warming causes sea levels to rise many, many more people will be homeless and need our help. The present situation is only the tip of the iceberg.

I applaud Justin Welby for speaking out.

It’s expected of Welby, to say ‘welcome to all, we are all the family of man’ and such stuff.Easy to say isn’t it?
He has no idea how to deal with this situation.

mumofmadboys

As global warming causes sea levels to rise many, many more people will be homeless and need our help. The present situation is only the tip of the iceberg.

Absolutely. A new class of refugee.

Global warming - largely from the very poor countries who contributed almost nothing to global warming but are suffering the most. There is huge drought in east Africa at present.

Oreo

It’s expected of Welby, to say ‘welcome to all, we are all the family of man’ and such stuff.Easy to say isn’t it?
He has no idea how to deal with this situation.

And the ex-army chief?

Oreo

It’s expected of Welby, to say ‘welcome to all, we are all the family of man’ and such stuff.Easy to say isn’t it?
He has no idea how to deal with this situation.

He used to work for the oil industry before he was ordained. Maybe the fact that global warming will result in many people becoming homeless has touched his conscience.

Shouldn’t think so Maybee70 as it’s not global warming that brings asylum seekers here.

Whitewavemark2

Just nodding along to everything you have said

I find it bemusing that people complain about the cost of living, the state of the NHS, education and all manner of things for which they like to blame the government, yet complain about attempts by the government to end the influx of migrants who enter the UK in breach of immigration control (the wording used in the Bill - how many have read it?) when such migrants cost the UK taxpayer many £m each day. Saying they could be allowed to work is not an answer. People with no papers, including a NI registration, cannot lawfully be employed - and many are unemployable due to lack of language and/or other skills. Don’t tell me about the doctors, dentists, lawyers et al - they are not qualified to practise in the UK.

I wonder how many of those criticising the Archbishop of Canterbury for speaking out as a Christian were happy to applaud his Christian duties when he crowned the King on Saturday? Unlike GN members, he does not have a pick n mix attitude to his Christian beliefs.

Oreo

Shouldn’t think so Maybee70 as it’s not global warming that brings asylum seekers here.

Not yet. But it will do.

GSM Your arguments are irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you think or whether immigrants are a burden. The fact is that it is NOT yet illegal to come to the UK on a boat without paperwork and to claim asylum.

For goodness sake, you're a trained lawyer. You must know that you cannot claim that something legal is illegal just because you don't like it.

well said HousePlant

Primrose53

Dinahmo

I have just looked up figures for countries accepting refugees. The top 10 ranges from Iran with 840k through Poland with 1.21 million, Russian Federation with1.45 million, Germany 2.2 million and the highest is Turkey with 3.67 million. Amongst the list are Ethiopia, Bangladesh, India, Uganda and Pakistan.

And the UK is complaining about 364,501 refugees, asylum seekers and stateless people as at November 2022.
The French figures (for 2021) were 499,914.

But look at the size of those countries compared to us!! I wish people would stop making out this country has not welcomed people because we have and for centuries.

It’s not a bad thing at all to pull up the drawbridge every now and then and look after the population we already have before allowing others in. It’s basic housekeeping! I am sure we all feed our families first before feeding everybody else in the street.

When did you last look at the population density in Germany? Germany takes far more asylum seekers per head of existing population and hectare than the UK does.

Nobody suggests a solution, though. It's easy for the Archbishop etc to criticise. It costs money to look after all these people - who wants to pay more tax to cover the costs?

growstuff

GSM Your arguments are irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you think or whether immigrants are a burden. The fact is that it is NOT yet illegal to come to the UK on a boat without paperwork and to claim asylum.

For goodness sake, you're a trained lawyer. You must know that you cannot claim that something legal is illegal just because you don't like it.

I haven’t claimed that the boat people are illegal immigrants. You will see that I quoted from the Bill. Read my post again. I support the Bill, which seeks to bring an end to this situation. Until the Bill passes into law I remain, as I said, bemused.

So you support the government breaking international law?

Quite, Sparklefizz. When we don’t even pay enough tax to keep the NHS going, why on earth should we pay more to look after people who choose to come here with no means of support but do not have to because they could perfectly well settle in another safe country and keep the £££ they have paid to smugglers?

Absolutely wwm, if that’s what it takes.

It's not the job of the Archbishop of Canterbury to draw up laws. His job is to speak out for the morality of such laws. He is following a long and honourable Christian tradition ( see Bonhoeffer et al).