Lords lay into the governments illegal migration bill

maddyone

Please remember that around 500,000 people immigrated to Britain last year, perfectly legally. Therefore there are ways to immigrate legally. Immigrants do not have to pay thousands of pounds to traffickers to get in a dinghy and sail here illegally. And it is illegal whatever some may say. There are legal ways to immigrate. Half a million people chose the legal route to this country just last year. Arriving without permission and no documents is illegal.

Is this real? There are not legal routes for people from many countries.

I'm going to leave this discussion because the degree of ignorance about the facts isn't doing my blood pressure any good.

I have no problem in accommodating the Afghans who worked for us Maybe. And they would already be here along with the twenty thousand (I think) who we did manage to bring out if it were not for Biden’s decision to depart Afghanistan so chaotically and suddenly. He caused the problem. However with regard to other Afghans who are unhappy with the situation in their country (and who wouldn’t be?) then there are other safe countries much nearer than Britain. Their neighbours, including Pakistan and Iran for example. I believe there are already many Afghans in those countries, which are nearer, less expensive to reach, and similar in culture.

I think a lot of the comments on this thread are ill informed. None of us imo has an answer to this problem we just complain about how others are trying to sort out the situation - me included!
Our country is small with finite resources and we are already struggling with poor or insufficient healthcare, housing, schools etc and adding a population of many thousands per month
who need extra resources is a problem that cannot be denied. We need to look for answers and quickly.

There is plenty of rural land in this country.

Ooh goody. Let’s build on it all and cause more flooding.

growstuff
Half a million people immigrated into this country last year. They immigrated legally. Therefore there are legal routes to immigrate into Britain. Whichever way you put it, there is legal immigration into Britain.

If your BP is playing up I suggest that you leave the discussion and have a lie down.

growstuff. Your user name is ironic. We must try to have food security. I live rurally. Every inch is arable or animal farming. We have huge new housing estates and those currently being built. More in the pipeline. Even if a field looks unused, it’s in rotation or growing grass for animal feed. We have to have open spaces too, to breath physically and mentally.

I think it’s a mixture of two things:

Fear; fear that the incomers are all criminals, or liars, or worse; fear that they will take over the green and pleasant land. Although I suspect that the probability of falling victim to crime committed by somebody born and raised in the green and pleasant land is much higher.

The good British value of fairness’ There’s a belief that the incomers aren’t being fair, that they are taking places away from those content to take their turn (although, of course, there is no way of getting your “turn” if you don’t fit the political agenda); that they are taking resources from the veterans, or the old, or the taxpayers. When in actual fact…well, see the cartoon.

I FEAR that should incomers be even minor criminals, there just aren't any police in my town to sort out any issues.
I don't care who is to blame, but until everything else in my country is under control why introduce more potential problems?
The answers won't be found quickly.

Volver 3 don’t think fear or fairness are in the mix. Just organisational incompetence of epic proportions and/or not having the resources to accommodate unknown and growing numbers of migrants.
I read that Scotland is keen to take on extra workers so that might be a starting point?

All you very kind people who want us to take further refugees in put your money where your mouth is and and house a family. This us where you all say you are in a one bed gust so it's up to others. Who? People who work full time can't afford their rent and food, so they don't matter? . Let's just let everyone roll in when we can't look after those here, they are already on barges, offer to take a family, that will help and public won't be resentful.
In some parts if U.K. We can't get a dentist, a doctor so adding a lot more people that can't, is that ok.

Flat not gust

16:25volver3
Process asylum seekers in France before they even get here, as France offered to do. won't work what about the ones we don't accept do you think they would just accept this and disappear they would more likely turn to the people smuggling gangs and come over illegally

Reintroduce legal routes so that desperate people don't have to rely on traffickers. some/most are not genuine and so would not be allowed into Britain so again would turn to illegal methods to get here, people smugglers if they have money, or back of a lorry

Show the population of the UK that this is just an invented crisis to make the current government look tough and to exploit people's fears, and that the numbers involved are tiny. 0.08% of our population per year, maximum.
most ordinary people want to stop the boats and the millions of pounds wasted every day paying to keep them in hotels This crisis is real

Spend the huge sums we currently spend on keeping people in hotels, on beefing up the number of civil servants (I assume its civil servants) who can deal with asylum claims and get people through the system quicker. Stop the Boats and Rwanda is meant to be a deterrent, some/most of the ones who come over on the dinghies and in the back of lorries are not genuine and have destroyed their identification papers where are we going to send them if their claim for Asylum is refused, or do you and Labour/the Left think we should just accept them all

If people have no right to be here, send them home. But that means that we have to assess whether they have a right to be here or not, and not just assume that everybody is out for a free ride courtesy of the UK taxpayer.
where are you going to send them if they have destroyed their identification papers

If people arriving on these shores have papers and can demonstrate skills in a particular area, allow them to work. They could be doctors, brickies, taxi drivers, scientists. Whatever. We're short of everything, aren't we? So they pay tax and contribute to our society.
If yes these people arriving have identification and skills but why don't they come legally then

In sorry to say this Nicenanny but you are just repeating the mistruths and myths that are flourishing around asylum seekers.

The ones we don't accept? Yes, they might try to come back. Like they always have. For years before the current "crisis". We used to be able to deal with them. What's changed? This government, that's what.

Some/most are not genuine? Between 70% and 90% of claims are accepted. Almost people are "genuine'.

I want to stop the boats. We could shoot people when they land. That would stop them. But what we do has to be legal and moral, which the Rwanda plan isn't.

If, for whatever reason, they don't have papers, we have to investigate them. Nobody said the solution is either easy or quick. But it has to be moral.

If they have skills they don't come here "legally" because there are no "legal" routes. However much Suella and the gang try to weasel out of it, this is our responsibility and making their lives a misery is not how we deal with it.

Allsorts

All you very kind people who want us to take further refugees in put your money where your mouth is and and house a family. This us where you all say you are in a one bed gust so it's up to others. Who? People who work full time can't afford their rent and food, so they don't matter? . Let's just let everyone roll in when we can't look after those here, they are already on barges, offer to take a family, that will help and public won't be resentful.
In some parts if U.K. We can't get a dentist, a doctor so adding a lot more people that can't, is that ok.

I'm not going to house a family. I don't house homeless people either, or ex military people, or families who live in sub standard accommodation.

Because it's the government's responsibility in all those cases.

People might not like to hear that, but that's the truth under international law.

2volver3
I want to stop the boats. We could shoot people when they land. That would stop them. But what we do has to be legal and moral, which the Rwanda plan isn't.

The Rwanda plan is a deterrent if you pay people smugglers thousands of pounds and arrive illegally on a dinghy you will be sent to Rwanda

what is an alternative plan then, there isn't one in my opinion that will work, all the things Labour/Lib Dems/Greens, you suggest won't work

If Labour/Lib Dems get in you might think we have problems now and yes I think we have problems but immigration both legal and illegal will quadruple under Labour

I want to stop the boats because I want people to stop dying needlessly and I want the people smugglers' business model to be ruined.

It appears to me, although I might of course be wrong, that you want to stop the boats because you don't want anybody coming here who you think is getting something over on you and people for whom you have "righteous" empathy.

Like I said, fear.

You can keep asking me about an alternative plan till the cows come home, and I've told you what it is, but if you don't want to accept it because it means immigrants will continue to come to our country, then nothing will satisfy you.

Why don't you just admit you don't want any more immigrants?

Quite happy to admit that, unless they come via a legal route, have skills needed here, the ability through those skills to support themselves and their families without state assistance and produce a net financial gain for the country. Is that much to ask?

I'm all for controlled immigration, picking and choosing people to come here whose skills we need. But you are right I don't want them arriving in dinghies or in the back of lorries with no documentation/ID that's why I support this Bill.

Nicenanny3

I'm all for controlled immigration, picking and choosing people to come here whose skills we need. But you are right I don't want them arriving in dinghies or in the back of lorries with no documentation/ID that's why I support this Bill.

None of us do Nicenanny. But some of us want to treat them like human beings and not ship them off to a country that may be worse that the one they may have come from.

You seriously think we'll get to pick and choose the crème de la crème?

Today we need hairdressers. Send for the hairdressers. What do you mean they don't want to come...?

Volver 3 just to ask do you have a top ceiling on number of migrants being admitted to the UK per year? How many is reasonable?

No ceiling. ( Fetch the smelling salts, Matron... )

Having a "ceiling" is an artificial way of pandering to people who think the immigrants are after a free ride and need to be controlled.

How many do you think is "reasonable"?

If it's set at 100,000, for the sake of argument, and 95,000 people come here fleeing civil war, in, say Sudan, do we tell the Ukrainians that they can't come any more because we have met our quota? Just try to think it through before setting daft artificial limits on things.

I wish I could wave a magic wand and change the anti immigrants into citizens of a foreign country devastated by war, or where they would be persecuted for their religious beliefs, or their sexuality, and where the 'normal routes' of applying for visas are non existent...

Or even just plant in them some understanding of the international law and conventions regarding refugees and asylum seekers... and how the tories have been engineering the current situation over the past few years...

If we have about 700k to one million migrants annually, it might explain why this country is struggling to house and process claims. It’s not ‘anti migrants’ to worry about the practical implications of migration policy. Figures will be out later this month.

Indeed.

Nicenanny3

2volver3
I want to stop the boats. We could shoot people when they land. That would stop them. But what we do has to be legal and moral, which the Rwanda plan isn't.

The Rwanda plan is a deterrent if you pay people smugglers thousands of pounds and arrive illegally on a dinghy you will be sent to Rwanda

what is an alternative plan then, there isn't one in my opinion that will work, all the things Labour/Lib Dems/Greens, you suggest won't work

*If Labour/Lib Dems get in you might think we have problems now and yes I think we have problems but immigration both legal and illegal will quadruple under Labour*

Why not just say immigration will increase tenfold or twenty fold under Labour? What proof to you have that it will quadruple?