Labour will be a major reforming government

Ilovecheese

I thought it was the Tories that brought in the bedroom tax?

So did I. But don't let's spoil the fantasy.

What interests me is why the tories haven't righted some of these perceived 'wrongs' during their 13 years in power.

I keep seeing that Starmer said that Labour are the real Conservatives now. Did he really say that? Although it wouldn't surprise me if it is true.

Casdon

Primrose53

Anniebach

If all downhill after John died how come Labour won 3 consecutive general elections ?

I should have said “in my opinion”. Yes Blair and Brown got in but OMG what a mess they made!!

Lied about Iraq
Created the detested bedroom tax
Sold hospitals to the private sector
Brought in disability assessments
Created the hated zero hours contracts
Created a generation of dependancy
Created Tuition fees
Signed over 100 PFI contracts

That’s just to be going on with.

Some poetic licence employed…. Shall we do a similar list for the Tories so you can compare them Primrose53?

Might be better to start your own thread as this one is about the Labour party. 🙂

Primrose53

Anniebach

If all downhill after John died how come Labour won 3 consecutive general elections ?

I should have said “in my opinion”. Yes Blair and Brown got in but OMG what a mess they made!!

Lied about Iraq
Created the detested bedroom tax
Sold hospitals to the private sector
Brought in disability assessments
Created the hated zero hours contracts
Created a generation of dependancy
Created Tuition fees
Signed over 100 PFI contracts

That’s just to be going on with.

Does creating a generation of dependency mean actually helping people that need help?

maddyone

Okay:

1) Investment in green agenda. 👍 so long as he doesn’t expect us all to go out and buy an expensive and inefficient heat pump, or an expensive electric car until the infrastructure is improved

2) Expansion of NHS staff. 👍👍👍👍👍

3) Votes at 16. NO. If people are called children till 18, why would they suddenly be adults at 16. I think we know the answer

4) Fundamental reform of workers rights. It depends on what this actually means. Theoretically good, but not knowing detail, impossible to judge

5) Recognise people’s need for stability, order, security. Very woolly, sounds good in principle, but what does it mean. Need details.

maddyone made some good points. 🤗🤗
Re 1.
We’re already being told by some posters on GN, that we should get an electric car or else we aren’t doing enough for the environment. We’re told we should have a heat pump (which I can’t afford).

If that’s going to be part of the government’s green agenda, I hope it will include support for the less well off public so they can do that, rather than just lectures.
Re:2 👏👏👏👏
Re:3 vote @ 16; will that mean 16 year old criminals will be dealt with as adults as well? They can stay in a YOI till they’re 21.
Points 4 and 5 are well put and don't need any further comment.
What I suspect will happen is the promises will be cancelled
because of the mess left by the previous government
That’s what usually happens.

People in Scotland can vote in Scottish Elections when they are 16. And Wales too I think, no doubt someone will know.

You can get married in Scotland at 16 without parental consent so you should be able to vote .If you're capable of paying tax and running a home, voting should be a dawdle .You will know what policies you would rather not have !

Ilovecheese

I thought it was the Tories that brought in the bedroom tax?

It goes back further than you think to 2001 when the late Malcolm Wicks, Labour MP and Secretary of State for Work and Pensions piloted it.

So I posted some more detail of one of the policy areas. But no one is discussing that! Just guesstimating with a clear agenda😄

Here is another

Support sustainable UK farming and animal welfare

Deliver a land-use framework in England that supports sustainable farming, enables the country to reach our climate goals, and improves our national biodiversity
Ensure more home-grown sustainable food is bought, made and sold, through public procurement targets
Ensure that 50% of all food purchased by the public sector is locally produced or certified to higher environmental production standards
Protect British standards in trade deals, rather than watering them down
Close loopholes in the fox hunting ban, outlaw trophy hunting (including imports from overseas) and ensure animals are treated with respect

"Might be better to start your own thread as this one is about the Labour party." From Primrose53, directed at Casdon.

I don't think so. The header is clearly designed to promote a discussion as to whether or not "Labour will be a major reforming Government". To suggest that all comment must therefore be about the Labour party rather misunderstands how any ongoing debate might develop. You may find negative comments about Labour irritating, but that doesn't justify waving some kind of red card at them and then trying to send them away to somewhere which you happen to find more comfortable . It should be an open discussion.

Primrose53

Casdon

Primrose53

Anniebach

If all downhill after John died how come Labour won 3 consecutive general elections ?

I should have said “in my opinion”. Yes Blair and Brown got in but OMG what a mess they made!!

Lied about Iraq
Created the detested bedroom tax
Sold hospitals to the private sector
Brought in disability assessments
Created the hated zero hours contracts
Created a generation of dependancy
Created Tuition fees
Signed over 100 PFI contracts

That’s just to be going on with.

Some poetic licence employed…. Shall we do a similar list for the Tories so you can compare them Primrose53?

Might be better to start your own thread as this one is about the Labour party. 🙂

If it’s all the same to you (or, for that matter if it isn’t) I think if you want to list alleged failures of the past, a comparison would be useful on this thread, because then we can compare the horrors of both governments and decide for ourselves if we think that the Tories have done a better job overall in the last 13 years than Labour did in the 13 before.

volver3

People in Scotland can vote in Scottish Elections when they are 16. And Wales too I think, no doubt someone will know.

Yes, 16 in Wales too, and of course lots of other countries of the world. There’s actually a better chance of an informed vote being made by 16 year olds, because the majority of them are still in education and politics and the importance of voting is discussed with them. They are probably more informed than the majority of other voters in fact.

In previous threads I have listed the achievements of Labour in the period1997-2008 - the list is long.

I could do this again for people with short memories.

Here you are I’ve pasted it from

The List

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal - helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

Taken from Tutor2U.

Thanks Whitewavemark3. Equivalent Tory list anybody?

Can someone do the same for the Tory party pkease as I can’t find one - Thanks.

Snap😄

Whitewavemark2

So I posted some more detail of one of the policy areas. But no one is discussing that! Just guesstimating with a clear agenda😄

WWM2, you could post full details of every Labour policy under the sun (please don't!), but it would still only be policy, which is yet to be put into practise. Several correspondents on this thread, myself included, are clearly in the "jam tomorrow" lobby, so discussion of manifestos and the like might be of passing academic interest, but would actually would prove nothing in practical terms.

But, but, but. This is how you decide on which political party best suits you. How on earth else are you going to know where to put your vote?

NanaDana

Whitewavemark2

So I posted some more detail of one of the policy areas. But no one is discussing that! Just guesstimating with a clear agenda😄

WWM2, you could post full details of every Labour policy under the sun (please don't!), but it would still only be policy, which is yet to be put into practise. Several correspondents on this thread, myself included, are clearly in the "jam tomorrow" lobby, so discussion of manifestos and the like might be of passing academic interest, but would actually would prove nothing in practical terms.

This.

NanaDana

Whitewavemark2

So I posted some more detail of one of the policy areas. But no one is discussing that! Just guesstimating with a clear agenda😄

WWM2, you could post full details of every Labour policy under the sun (please don't!), but it would still only be policy, which is yet to be put into practise. Several correspondents on this thread, myself included, are clearly in the "jam tomorrow" lobby, so discussion of manifestos and the like might be of passing academic interest, but would actually would prove nothing in practical terms.

That’s why it’s a good idea to see the actual achievements and failures of previous governments NanaDana as you would know who to believe when they say what their policies are.

Much as I want Labour into number 10 I’m not dewy eyed about all the policies they would like to act on. Am not exactly old myself but have seen and heard too many promises before from all kinds of politicians.Sometime they go overboard before the ship leaves harbour.

But if you judge them by their achievements during their last tenure by comparing it to the Tory achievements ( yet to be detailed) and then look at their proposed policies, you can surely make some sort of judgement?