The Johnsons baby announcement

Congratulations to Boris and Carrie! This will be his 8th child (so far as we know, there are rumours...) and their 3rd. Boris clearly has strong swimmers and is apparently doing his best to deal with the UK's falling birth rate single-handedly

The point Miriam Cates was making is that the government currently appears to see mothers purely as economic units and is doing everything it can to get them back to work as soon as possible. She wants provision made for mothers, who choose to do so, to be able to stay at home and care for their own children in those important pre-school years rather than having to pay for very expensive childcare - even with the help the government gives. Currently most mothers are forced to return to work very early for financial reasons - even if they do not want to. We no longer value motherhood - whilst bemoaning the fact our birthrate has dropped well below replacement rate. If it was more economically viable for mothers to stay home for a bit longer with their children then I am sure more would do so. Nobody is suggesting mothers should be forced to stay home with the children if they do not want to, and of course the option should also apply to fathers potentially taking on the role of main childcarer. What on earth is wrong with that?

Miriam Cates seemed to be keen also to encourage women to have children instead of attending university. Does this sit well with you Saetana? It does not with me. I believe that gender should not be a factor in such decisions, on a personal level as a parent of male and female graduates, but also as a patient of a female doctor and dentist.

BlueBelle

A baby is a gift, the parents are not always as much of a gift though
Baby number 3 I think that’s baby number 6 or is it 7 for Johnson !!

It's baby no 8 that we know of.

1/ 4 by his ex wife

2/ 1 by an affair whilst still with his ex

3/ A rumoured another baby by an another affair, whilst still with the ex, neither confirmed or denied.

4/ 2 abortions and 1 miscarriage, reportedly

His ex wife finally got rid of him when he was caught having the affair with Carrie and his ex was having treatment for cancer.

There was also talk he was cheating on Carrie with his hairdresser. The shock was he had a hairdresser. Not the affair.

For the record I don't know what women see in him either.

Saetana

The point Miriam Cates was making is that the government currently appears to see mothers purely as economic units and is doing everything it can to get them back to work as soon as possible. She wants provision made for mothers, who choose to do so, to be able to stay at home and care for their own children in those important pre-school years rather than having to pay for very expensive childcare - even with the help the government gives. Currently most mothers are forced to return to work very early for financial reasons - even if they do not want to. We no longer value motherhood - whilst bemoaning the fact our birthrate has dropped well below replacement rate. If it was more economically viable for mothers to stay home for a bit longer with their children then I am sure more would do so. Nobody is suggesting mothers should be forced to stay home with the children if they do not want to, and of course the option should also apply to fathers potentially taking on the role of main childcarer. What on earth is wrong with that?

I agree with this. We undervalue both mothers and children in this country. Motherhood is an extremely difficult job and it could be made easier by the right government policies.

We need to stop talking about mothers of young children "going back to work". They are at work looking after their children. It really pisses me off that so few people recognise bringing up one's children oneself as a good job to do. I think its importance is very under appreciated.

Baggs

We need to stop talking about mothers of young children "going back to work". They are at work looking after their children. It really pisses me off that so few people recognise bringing up one's children oneself as a good job to do. I think its importance is very under appreciated.

I agree Baggs. I was able to stay at home with my third child having struggled to work and look after my other two whilst battling a disability. I was so relieved when my husband said he'd be happier if I stayed home. The worst people for looking down on me for such a decision were other women who actually chose to work in order to have a more grandiose lifestyle. I accepted their choice without judgement but couldn't understand why they found it so hard to accept mine. I had a fulfilling life volunteering where I could and being able to say no when family life needed me. I also cared for elderly members of my family where I could. It felt like work to me!

Baggs

We need to stop talking about mothers of young children "going back to work". They are at work looking after their children. It really pisses me off that so few people recognise bringing up one's children oneself as a good job to do. I think its importance is very under appreciated.

Totally agree

And me.

Remember when a man could do a modest job (foreman, postman, builder) and the family could afford the run a house, a car, feed and clothe a couple of children, have an annual holiday.

Now you have two adults working their backside off, often with multiple jobs, and they can’t even afford a bloody house and doubt that they can even have one child.

Something has gone drastically wrong

Baggs

We need to stop talking about mothers of young children "going back to work". They are at work looking after their children. It really pisses me off that so few people recognise bringing up one's children oneself as a good job to do. I think its importance is very under appreciated.

Agreed. I stayed home with our children - never wasn't home.

However, I'd guess the majority of posters disagree.

Now you have two adults working their backside off, often with multiple jobs, and they can’t even afford a bloody house and doubt that they can even have one child.

Quite a lot of parents literally only have time to give their children tea and put them to bed. My son and his wife only realised how little time they actually spent with their preschool child when Covid hit and they worked from home.

Baggs

We need to stop talking about mothers of young children "going back to work". They are at work looking after their children. It really pisses me off that so few people recognise bringing up one's children oneself as a good job to do. I think its importance is very under appreciated.

I agree too. After doing a job which involved over 80 hours a week I stopped to have DC1 and realised that as a breast-feeding mother I was on call 168 hours a week. That came as a bit of a shock, and I was always very cross when asked when I was "going back to work" when I was working harder than ever!

Needs to put a knot in it!

icanhandthemback

Baggs

We need to stop talking about mothers of young children "going back to work". They are at work looking after their children. It really pisses me off that so few people recognise bringing up one's children oneself as a good job to do. I think its importance is very under appreciated.

I agree Baggs. I was able to stay at home with my third child having struggled to work and look after my other two whilst battling a disability. I was so relieved when my husband said he'd be happier if I stayed home. The worst people for looking down on me for such a decision were other women who actually chose to work in order to have a more grandiose lifestyle. I accepted their choice without judgement but couldn't understand why they found it so hard to accept mine. I had a fulfilling life volunteering where I could and being able to say no when family life needed me. I also cared for elderly members of my family where I could. It felt like work to me!

Well, maybe that just shows how judgmental all people can be.

I found the polar opposite. When my children were little, we lived in a village, where I was one of the few full-time working (outside the home) mothers.

I was never able to attend sports days or the other daytime activities at my children's school. I was never one of the network who went round to each others' houses for coffee. At least one of the teachers looked down her nose at me.

We didn't have a "grandiose lifestyle". I worked to afford the mortgage and be able to feed and clothe our children, as do many parents. They don't have a choice.

Most younger women do want to work, I know plenty with families, but I can only think of one SAHM. It’s a choice for the vast majority of them, not an economic imperative. I think that’s how it should be for all mothers - a choice.

What SAHMs tend to forget though is that for those of us who worked, the only thing we didn’t do was spend so many hours with our children - all the other work associated with raising them and looking after the home was still there, with the added pressure of spending more time outside the home, often in a pressurised job, as well, which is even harder than being a SAHM just because of the competing demands on time. I don’t judge SAHMs, it’s entirely up to them, but I couldn’t have done it myself.

Casdon Most younger women do want to work, I know plenty with families, but I can only think of one SAHM. It’s a choice for the vast majority of them, not an economic imperative. I think that’s how it should be for all mothers - a choice.

Personally, I know none who have worked after children, however, it's a valid choice. All families should freely work out what suits.

Casdon I don’t agree.
I have two male friends who both have relatively high earning wives, and it’s the men who would like to be stay at home parents.
A two income household is now a necessity.

FannyCornforth

Casdon I don’t agree.
I have two male friends who both have relatively high earning wives, and it’s the men who would like to be stay at home parents.
A two income household is now a necessity.

That’s fine FannyCornforth, it’s such an emotive area and we are allowed to disagree. In my experience, it’s about independence, with younger women no longer wanting to be dependent on their husband. Admittedly most of those I know are in professional jobs, have worked hard to get where they are in work, and enjoy working. They leave having children later than our generation did, have less children, know that more relationships break down, and they want to depend on their own resources. These aren’t people who are bad parents, in fact quite the opposite, they are excellent. It’s the parents who don’t focus on their children when they are with them that I think we should be worried about.

Casdon yes, of course.
It don’t disagree that it is definitely should be a choice.
My point was that it isn’t a choice for many.
The men to whom I refer are in their 30s.
I think it’s very sad

And they are both teachers.
My initial point was that working class men with blue collar jobs earned enough to amply provide for his family

FannyCornforth

And they are both teachers.
My initial point was that working class men with blue collar jobs earned enough to amply provide for his family

Agreed.

My 'blue collar' engineer husband always provided, still does.

We didn't have a "grandiose lifestyle". I worked to afford the mortgage and be able to feed and clothe our children, as do many parents. They don't have a choice

No, a lot of people don't sadly, neither did I with my first two children. I have no problem with anybody choosing to work because they want a better standard of living or working because they have to but I do hate that being a SAHM is looked down upon by some people.

I notice that Carrie Johnson’s Instagram announcement was made on the day the Privileges Committee told Johnson they would take the new information about his Covid guidance (and possibly law) breaking into account. I am cynical enough to think the Johnsons expected the news to become public the same day and needed some distraction headlines.

I object to the term “working mother” too. If you have children you are working, whether at home with them all the time or in an outside paid job as well as looking after them part of the time. I had a friend who had a paid job and who referred to quality time with her children when she was at home. I was a full-time SAHM and regarded quality time as being when DH looked after them and I could go to the loo without someone banging on the door to have a sibling dealt with!

Baggs

We need to stop talking about mothers of young children "going back to work". They are at work looking after their children. It really pisses me off that so few people recognise bringing up one's children oneself as a good job to do. I think its importance is very under appreciated.

Well said Baggs.