Can a woman have a penis?

FannyCornforth

I used to live next door to a transwoman 25 years ago.

She was very tall, always wore tracksuits and gender neutral clothes, I never saw her in makeup and her hair was ‘meh’; but she totally ‘passed’.

I had absolutely no idea that she was born a man.

As others have said, it’s all about the girliness and stereotypes now.

It’s a performance

But so is life for women generally and that is absolutely nothing to do with transwomen. Girls spend more time on make up and beauty practices than we ever did. But then I spent more time on them than my mum did.
Things change.

Galaxy

It's no good lecturing on stereotypes whilst producing an article loaded with them.
Fanny I can't speak for you, didnt I promote you to head of government security the other day, you are way beyond my pay grade now.

This avoids the point but neither I nor trans women are responsible for stereotypes existing

This is not a chicken or egg scenario

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

I support all human beings.

I am on the side of biology and science both of which evolve with time and research.

I am of the same opinion as Professor Sir Robert Winston who has stated numerous times that our sex is in every single cell in our body and humans cannot change sex.

This may be alien to many posters on this thread but I trust his take on it and as far as I know he is eminently more qualified than any posters here.

When it becomes possible for some scanner or instrument to detect the sex of the cells in my body, and assign me to the right section of any facility. what RW says might have relevance to my everyday life. But at the moment it's as relevant as the composition of the rings of Saturn.

No it is not irrelevant the trans lobby and it’s supporters are asking, no sorry demanding that they are treated as natal women, accepted into our spaces, our female only changing rooms etc. etc.

They are not women and never will be. They are dressing as women, role playing, acting, pretending to be of the opposite sex they were born as.

All this is their right, but natal women have rights to and these should not be trodden on, by passed because of these men and sorry if that offends but they are men and always will be.

Our cross dressing acquaintance despairs what the trans lobby is doing and how it is impinging on their and their contemporaries lives.

No doodledog it is not blaming a whole group for the actions of a few

It's blaming the women (plural) who are actually doing it

Or do we need more words for woman now so that you can tell what is what?

Use your logic

I'm a woman too, and I'm not doing it so it's plural use is self explanatory

No it is the concept that you can dress like or live like a woman. The second paragraph advises us to address people 'by what it looks like they are going for'. If they are wearing makeup then address them by ms.
So Julian Clary is female then. The sexism is off the chart.

Glorianny that’s my point about stereotypes.
It should not be like it.
I will not accept either femininity or masculinity as a performance.

This is the sort of guff which is sending boys into the toxic grasp of Incel culture and the likes of Andrew Tate.

And I speak as one who has plastered myself in makeup half of my life.
Sometimes I do all the girly stuff.
Sometimes I don’t.

It’s a very flippant choice - it’s not an expression of my sex

VioletSky

No doodledog it is not blaming a whole group for the actions of a few

It's blaming the women (plural) who are actually doing it

Or do we need more words for woman now so that you can tell what is what?

Use your logic

I'm a woman too, and I'm not doing it so it's plural use is self explanatory

So what's the difference between what you are saying (that some women are accusing some innocent lesbians of being men because of the actions of a few) and the fact that some people see some innocent transpeople as dangerous because of the actions of a few dangerous ones?

Also - if this development of lesbians being asked to leave toilets is so widespread, could we have a link to a UK incident, please?

Galaxy

No it is the concept that you can dress like or live like a woman. The second paragraph advises us to address people 'by what it looks like they are going for'. If they are wearing makeup then address them by ms.
So Julian Clary is female then. The sexism is off the chart.

Let me know when you have done away with the stereotypes perpetuated by actual women themselves

Good luck!

Racism will always exist. I dont collude with racist stereotypes so I am not going to collude with sexist ones.

Gosh, thanks for reminding me Galaxy! 😮‍💨

I’d better get back to heading the securement of governmental stuff.
It’s all safe in my hands.

And I’ve got scampi and fries to cook too…

Smileless2012

I don't agree in the context of this discussion that it does Galaxy and don't know an alternative way of expressing it TBH.

Maybe adding "traditional" as in "traditional ideas of..."?

I also dont agree that in this context using the phrase "dreses like a woman" particularly reinforces ideas. In other contexts it might well, but in this context where the discussion has partially focused on "men dressing like a woman" it doesnt.

Galaxy

Racism will always exist. I dont collude with racist stereotypes so I am not going to collude with sexist ones.

We aren't allowed to compare these situations to racism galaxy

I've compared transphobia to racism and everyone got upset so same rules apply

People are at liberty to present how they wish

Either you want to be able to tell who is a woman or you don't

Because you seem to think you can tell. What are you basing this on?

I dont know violet, how do you know Starmer isnt the first female leader of the labour party. How do I know julian Clary is a man. It's all a mystery.

So Julian Clary is female then
Nope, he's a bloke wearing makeup which is fine if that's what he wishes to do.

Are you a spokesperson for society?
I don't think so.

Oh just stop with the passive aggression will you? You never learn that it's this attitude that rubs people up the wrong way and adds absolutely zilch to any discussion.

Glorianny
So please could you stop pretending you speak or support all women.

I support females, not women, ever since the right to use women to mean only female was abrogated by . . . Males.

Because it seems to me that the only women you really support are ones who immediately agree with you.
Once again G or T, you have described yourself perfectly.
The only women you really support are ones who immediately agree with you.

The rest of us are fair game and can be insulted and denigrated at will.
What do you mean by that? Who are the rest of us? Can you show me.

Galaxy

I dont know violet, how do you know Starmer isnt the first female leader of the labour party. How do I know julian Clary is a man. It's all a mystery.

I don't care

I focus on how people behave

Madgran77

*So Julian Clary is female then*
Nope, he's a bloke wearing makeup which is fine if that's what he wishes to do.

That is exactly the point that Galaxy is making

Galaxy

Racism will always exist. I dont collude with racist stereotypes so I am not going to collude with sexist ones.

I pointed out how the high profile TIM’s often present themselves, by doing so does in no way mean that I approve of or perpetuate stereotypes

I hate to think that folks think any different of me when I am in wellies, shapeless clothing, straw in my hair and covered in horse manure, or wearing relaxed clothing to care for and play with GC, or dressed to go out to dinner with DH.

We all dress appropriately for whatever is scheduled for that day/evening.

So are we all subliminally adhering to stereotypes or are we dressing/presenting in such a way that we are comfortable?

Actually Mollygo glorianny and I aren't in perfect agreement at all

But neither of us use bully tactics in discussion so we get along fine

And remember that trans people in television or the media are open publicly about their trans status.
Yes and having been publicly open, would they openly be disrespectful to females . . . apart from EI, who many or may not be trans or bi or a cross dresser, depending on the day.

Oh that's good then. The labour party spend their life trying themselves in knots about female representation. Now we have a woman leading the party we can all calm down.

Anyone can wear anything they like

My advice in that article would have actually been "use gender neutral pronouns or none and just say "hello""

But I don't blame people for stereotypes women perpetuate themselves. No man has ever cared what I wear. Only women have judged my appearance or weight or dress or makeup

www.theguardian.com/culture/2019/sep/23/julian-clary-i-have-the-right-to-be-a-camp-effeminate-homosexual

Julian Clary ...has never said he was female...and he wears makeup....in other words the reference to him is not relevant to a discussion on "can a woman have a penis?". Actually it would be interesting to hear his reply to that question.

How on earth did you know they were women that were judging you. What criteria did you use?