Can a woman have a penis?

I laughed at Smileless and Mollygo calling me "desperate" which is actually really rude

So now you know

You need to speak to organisations about how they interpret the equality act, not blame trans people in an ideal world yes maybe, but most of them run scared from the trans lobby and bullies. We had the NHS telling a woman and even the police that she couldn't have been raped on the female ward because there were no men on it. Nearly a year later it was proved the transwoman on it had raped the woman. I can't imagine the distress of being raped then the hospital colluding to protect themselves and by default the rapist too. Have you never seen the abuse and flack people get who risk suggesting that women only spaces shouldn't admit people with penises? Does personal responsibility not apply to transwomen to respect that a female only space is not for them? Those swimmers that had to share open locker rooms with Lia Thomas, who flashed with impunity, were abused for objecting.

perhaps, like intersex people most trans people should be left out of the debate and we should focus on those who actually do cause women issues instead of bringing in people who are not coming for anyone's rights in such a generalised way

And perhaps instead of focusing on the rare instances of butch lesbians being asked to leave Ladies' loos, we should leave them out of the debate and focus on the fact that women are increasingly being denied spaces where we can feel safe at times when we might feel vulnerable?

It is showing such double standards to argue that some minority concerns (such as butch-looking women in the Ladies') should drive policies, yet expect 'the debate' not to focus on transpeople, who are the crux of the matter. What would be being debated in that case?

I agree that a solution to the problem of women feeling unsafe in what used to be our safe spaces needs to be found. The obvious one is to return those spaces to a status of 'women only' (or 'female only' if preferred). That way, any man in a changing room, female hospital ward or similar would have to explain his presence, not be able to cry 'phobic' and insist that he is actually a woman and has a right to be there. That can't be done if we remove 'ordinary' (ie non-criminal) transpeople from the debate, as they would have to be excluded too.

If we work towards male acceptance of transwomen instead of expecting women to budge up to make room for them, they could use the facilities that their biology dictates. I would absolutely support serious penalties for anyone victimising them in there, but see no reason why it should be women who have to deal with what is, at bottom, a male problem.

For the record, I don't care if transmen use the Ladies, as they are women, and I don't want them (or anyone else) to show me anything to prove their sex. How things should be policed is not for me to decide, and I don't think I have ever heard of a transman sexually assaulting someone in a male or female facility anyway. The only case of sexual assault by a transman I can think of is one where a straight woman was tricked into having a sexual relationship without realising that her new partner was male.

I genuinely don't understand why any organisation would struggle with it Rosie because I accept trans people and have no qualms with saying that safe spaces should be protected

There is a possibility that the trans debate itself is having an impact on how organisations handle these situations, because they don't wan't to look bad depending on what demographics are their primary source of revenue and how accepting of trans people that demographic is

VS your lol was not a joke. There is no such thing as a one word joke.

Women can protect their spaces without treating trans people like a potential threat, that's the reason it is written into the equality act
The only trans people I see as a threat are those who are in the wrong place, e.g. in female spaces when they are obviously male.
Those who would have previously gone unnoticed, probably still do.

Please explain how you envisage females protecting their spaces against males or TIM who are a threat.

You are obviously not happy with the idea of saying no males in female spaces, so how would you organise it?

You wrote,
Obviously trans people need a space to change so ensuring private lockable cubicles exist (which they do in many places) is an easy and non offensive solution.

I’d happily vote for trans-toilets, trans safe spaces, and I did vote for trans-competitions. One out of three is already beginning to take place.

I have no idea why they haven’t done what you suggest for males in male spaces for years.
Why do you think it is essential that female spaces should be used?

I can envisage your response being that TIM would be at risk in male toilets. Which is exactly how females feel when males are in their safe spaces.
Ergo, unless you are saying that TIM needs are more important than the needs of natal females, you must support no males in female safe spaces.

I know you don’t like being asked for evidence, but have you discovered any occasions of dsd people you are conflating with trans issues, who have committed the offences that caused the No males in female spaces to be necessary? If so would you be willing to share on here.

If not, it is very Unkind and disrespectful of their wishes to use them to promote your cause.

Doodledog

*. . .flashing has been going on for years which is one reason why there are dedicated spaces for women, so men cannot access them and exhibit their genitalia.*

Excellent point, as is the one about how 'flashing' often leads to more serious offences.

As for arming trans children - that is so far beyond the pale as to be incredible. Has the trans lobby now declared actual war against those who disagree with them?

As for arming trans children - that is so far beyond the pale as to be incredible. Has the trans lobby now declared actual war against those who disagree with them?

Well this particular mob certainly have. I doubt all trans gender people agree with them though.

It's such an absurd declaration and should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

The worrying aspects of this though are the promotion of violence as the 'solution' to a problem, and the damage it will do to the remainder of the trans gender individuals who are not part of this violent movement.

Agreed, Dickens. And it is further evidence of how the trans lobby is prepared to exploit children to further their cause. It is very clear that they have zero concern for the children and young people. Their mental health is already being manipulated by affirmation, their bodies are at risk from those who channel them towards 'transition', and now their freedom is at risk if they are being encouraged to break the law by carrying weapons.

For me Dickens it appears that they don't care about the vast majority of the trans community and the promotion of violence as a 'solution' is sadly very much a male response IMO.

I think it's more than a "possibility" that organisations haven't addressed the issue of men in women's spaces and competing against women in sports, because they "don't want to look bad", especially when the most sensible and reasonable objections are so often shouted down as being transphobic.

Yes, changes are now happening with regard to elite sports but they've been a long time coming, and should never have been up for debate in the first place. Little comfort for those women who've been cheated of their rightful place on the podium by a man.

Well I watched the video and didn't spot the "Arm transchildren" placard.. If it is there it certainly isn't one of the most prominent. I did see one of Posie Parker's officials having to be hauled out by the police after trying to stop the people with a banner supporting transpeople. What really struck me was the number of police present. They totally outnumbered either group. Nor are the people protesting actually TERFs . Many of them are anti-fascists who recognise the complete unacceptability of a woman who opposes legal abortion speaking for the rest of us.

An excellent point Doodledog. Suggesting that trans children be armed is yet another example of the trans lobby being prepared to exploit children to further their cause.

Does it matter if it wasn't "one of the most prominent" Glorianny? Surely the fact it was there at all is disconcerting to say the least.

It's a shame that such an important issue being highlighted ie women, or anyone for that matter, opposing legal abortion appears to have been high jacked by TRA's. Ironic too when a trans woman would never be in a position to make such a difficult choice.

People who oppose abortion are perfectly entitled to speak. Do I really have to say this.

People can't speak for the rest of us

Yes of course they do Galaxy and having re read my post I can see that I didn't express myself very well.

VioletSky

I laughed at Smileless and Mollygo calling me "desperate" which is actually really rude

So now you know

Ok yes now I do know!

But because that was all you put it appears that other posters were not sure what your "LOL" was related to. Maybe quoting would help in order to ensure clarity about what the LOL refers to.

In the case of my reference to the "quacking penis" it was obvious which post I was referring to and quite obviously humourous. LOL with no reference is not obviously humourous.

Or an explanation at the time

Actually I did as you at the time what you found amusing VS but you never responded.

You asked politely Madgran so I answered

That was a play on words but I think I got it wrong

I think it is "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's a duck"

Completely harmless as you can see

Have we cleared it up now?

Sorry smileless I wasnt having a go with you. The abortion issue is used as a stick to beat people with in this debate.

No worries Galaxy but I should have expressed myself more clearly.

Glorianny. - well, here's the image from the articles. Looks pretty clear.

FWIW I asked politely too in fact if your screen shot had been just a little bit bigger, my request would have been visible too as it immediately follows your 'Lol'.

Certainly looks prominent to me DL.

OK VS, I’m sorry if I called you desperate on that occasion, but you do seem rather desperate to avoid answering any questions I ask about what you post, so I’ve apologised. How about you answering my questions?

It was me who posted that bringing dildos into the discussion smacked of desperation, you just agreed with me Molly.