Can a woman have a penis?

DiamondLily

Trans women will always have a penis, unless they have had it surgically removed.

Probably because Trans women are biological men....😉

Well yes. But as they might have it removed then "may" seems the right word. But I'm still pondering on ducks now!

Madgran77 believe me, I had to look it up too and I learned that a cock doesn’t have one!!!
I always called a female duck, a duck, but thought I’d better be sure of my facts.

nanna8

There’s an awful lot of interest in penises here. Obviously a very important issue for some.

Random men’s penises are of very little interest to me in the normal run of things. It is the idea that they could be exposed to unwary women and girls in changing rooms or hospital wards tor sexual thrills (or worse) that ‘interests’ me, along with the fact that their owners are typically bigger, stronger and, well, male than women, so their presence around vulnerable women can pose a threat.

Doodledog

nanna8

There’s an awful lot of interest in penises here. Obviously a very important issue for some.

Random men’s penises are of very little interest to me in the normal run of things. It is the idea that they could be exposed to unwary women and girls in changing rooms or hospital wards tor sexual thrills (or worse) that ‘interests’ me, along with the fact that their owners are typically bigger, stronger and, well, male than women, so their presence around vulnerable women can pose a threat.

Yes it's called flashing. Been going on for ever and little to do with transwomen.

Mollygo

Doodledog
I’ve read that article before. It’s often dragged into this sort of thread, but as you said
it is about DSDs, and people with DSDs have very explicitly asked not to be dragged into 'trans issues', as their condition is about sex, not gender.
So is it being kind to ignore their wishes and use their condition in discussions about gender.

It wasn't a discussion about gender.
It was a direct response to a question .
Nothing to do with anyone's individual condition, but a great deal to do with the complexities of sex and chromosomes and sexual development. Showing that it isn't quite as simple as some claim. That physical changes can be complicated, and surely, opening up the idea that if there can be physical changes which are different to normal development, there must also be the possibility of changes in the brain. If every cell in the body can be the opposite sex to the one identified at birth, then surely the brain may have problems matching the sex of the body.

As 'flashing', I agree. It's a pervert thing. But (at the risk of going over very old ground, and having people say that it's the 'same old, same old'), when men can insist on being in women's spaces, it is far more likely to happen, and to happen in places that are otherwise private, and where women and girls are in a state of undress or are otherwise vulnerable.

That is not to say that being trans = being a pervert, or that flashers are likely to be transwomen - but that allowing men into women's spaces gives perverts and flashers the cover to make it easier for them.

There was a really crazy protest going on in London's Hyde Park yesterday.

A "Let Women Speak" rally was ambushed by the usual lot.

Some of the "trans-fans" apparently want to arm trans kids... (yeah, that'll improve life.🙄). I can't imagine what branch of the new feminism wants to arm kids.

Some sort of fracas started and three people were arrested.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12135503/Feminists-masked-counter-protesters-banner-saying-arm-trans-kids-face-off.html

Flashing is also a frequent precursor to more serious crimes. We know enough now not to minimise it.

Isla Bryson for example was flashing in plain site.

Sight even. 🤦‍♀️

Just been catching up with this thread and have been thoroughly entertained especially with the reference to a quacking penis but now back to topic.

Yes Glorianny flashing has been going on for years which is one reason why there are dedicated spaces for women, so men cannot access them and exhibit their genitalia. I agree Galaxy that wherever it takes place, is shouldn't be minimised.

Crazy certainly sums it up DL. How can these "trans-fans" expect to be taken seriously by any clear thinking members of society and why are they so blind to the damage they do to genuine trans?

Glorianny

Mollygo
Doodledog
I’ve read that article before. It’s often dragged into this sort of thread, but as you said
it is about DSDs, and people with DSDs have very explicitly asked not to be dragged into 'trans issues', as their condition is about sex, not gender.
So is it being kind to ignore their wishes and use their condition in discussions about gender.
It wasn't a discussion about gender.
It was a direct response to a question .
Nothing to do with anyone's individual condition, but a great deal to do with the complexities of sex and chromosomes and sexual development. Showing that it isn't quite as simple as some claim. That physical changes can be complicated, and surely, opening up the idea that if there can be physical changes which are different to normal development, there must also be the possibility of changes in the brain. If every cell in the body can be the opposite sex to the one identified at birth, then surely the brain may have problems matching the sex of the body.

* so whose version of kind or respectful is it to drag people who do not wish their condition to be conflated with other issues, into a discussion which involves areas that they do not wish to be dragged into?*
Yours, obviously, but not my idea of kind, or respectful.

. . .flashing has been going on for years which is one reason why there are dedicated spaces for women, so men cannot access them and exhibit their genitalia.

Excellent point, as is the one about how 'flashing' often leads to more serious offences.

As for arming trans children - that is so far beyond the pale as to be incredible. Has the trans lobby now declared actual war against those who disagree with them?

Doodledog

*. . .flashing has been going on for years which is one reason why there are dedicated spaces for women, so men cannot access them and exhibit their genitalia.*

Excellent point, as is the one about how 'flashing' often leads to more serious offences.

As for arming trans children - that is so far beyond the pale as to be incredible. Has the trans lobby now declared actual war against those who disagree with them?

Seems like it.
Your point here
That is not to say that being trans = being a pervert, or that flashers are likely to be transwomen - but that allowing men into women's spaces gives perverts and flashers the cover to make it easier for them. makes it clear to reasonable people why males should not be allowed in female spaces.

Yes I did say that there are plenty of male species that don't actually have a penis so a penis is not always a 100% male identifier

I've come back because now I can see it is actually ok to have a joke and a laugh on this thread so it's fine for me not to take it too seriously either

Hopefully everyone won't be upset at the odd laugh now

Just read the article linked too by Glorianny. Interesting but irrelevant IMO to this discussion especially as those affected do not want this particular condition to be conflated with trans and gender issues.

Maybe when it comes to respect Mollygo everyone deserves it but some deserve it more than others.

I think the trans lobby declared war against those who disagree with them sometime ago Doodledog and just when you think they can't sink any lower, there's now a desire to arm trans children .

It's like something from a dystopian novel isn't it .

The protesters at Hyde Park yesterday and their odious signs and chants are one of the reasons I will continue to campaign for women only spaces i.e. no males of any shape of form.

It's not really conflating them with trans issues

It's saying that, there isn't just XX and XY as some state and that at a biological level, there are differences

Some of those differences may explain trans people and gender dysphoria and perhaps, like intersex people most trans people should be left out of the debate and we should focus on those who actually do cause women issues instead of bringing in people who are not coming for anyone's rights in such a generalised way

If I'm exposed unwillingly to a "transwoman's" penis how is that any different to being exposed unwillingly to a "man's" penis? Allowing transwomen's penises into female only spaces gives easy entry to any body with a penis who identifies as a woman, even when malignantly motivated.

Flashing is also a frequent precursor to more serious crimes. We know enough now not to minimise it.
Indeed, Wayne Couzens had flashed staff at a MacDonald's on two separate occasions before he kidnapped, raped and killed Sarah Everard. If Wayne had claimed to be a transwoman he could have accessed women only spaces with ease.

Women's spaces are protected under the equality act

You need to speak to organisations about how they interpret the equality act, not blame trans people

Women can protect their spaces without treating trans people like a potential threat, that's the reason it is written into the equality act

Obviously trans people need a space to change so ensuring private lockable cubicles exist (which they do in many places) is an easy and non offensive solution

Hopefully everyone won't be upset at the odd laugh now

As long as what is being laughed at is obviously a joke. Or explained as such. I'm truly not trying to get at you/goad you/victimise you Violet. Just explaining (from MY perspective, can't speak for anyone else) the difference between the quacking penis/duck discussion and "LOL" in the middle of a serious point being made. I believe it was a LOL that caused the previous queries re joking but I apologise if I'm wrong, I havent gone back to check.

It was Glorianny who introduced that particular topic VS and from what I see here on GN "most trans people" are left out of the debate, in fact the majority are and are only mentioned when posters are emphasising that they aren't referring all trans, especially when there are accusations of transphobia.

We know that women's spaces are protected under the equality act and trans people are not being blamed here. Only the ones who refuse to adhere to that protection.

I agree that private lockable cubicles are an easy and non offensive solution but they should be in gender neutral facilities so that no intact males should ever access women's spaces.

Women are making their voices loud and clear about this issue and I hope that trans people are doing the same when it comes to speaking to organisations. This is not something that only women should have to fight for.

That's a frightening thought about Couzens Rosie.

No you're right Madgran. Laughing at a joke is totally different to posting 'Lol' with no explanation directly after another's post.

Madgran77

*Hopefully everyone won't be upset at the odd laugh now*

As long as what is being laughed at is obviously a joke. Or explained as such. I'm truly not trying to get at you/goad you/victimise you Violet. Just explaining (from MY perspective, can't speak for anyone else) the difference between the quacking penis/duck discussion and "LOL" in the middle of a serious point being made. I believe it was a LOL that caused the previous queries re joking but I apologise if I'm wrong, I havent gone back to check.

Ok

Male spaces, changing rooms etc.

Female spaces, changing rooms etc.

Gender neutral spaces, changing rooms etc.

Simple solution should keep all folks happy.