Cancel Culture or Free Speech

You're fortunate not have been called transphobic or of had your views referred too as transphobic VS. I and many on these thread have at the very least suggested that opinions expressed are evidence of transphobia.

I agree with you VS and there's only one part of your post @ 12.28 that I am not in total agreement with, which is "living a fictional life in some way".

It is a fiction to believe that one's sex can be changed, that a TW who is living as a woman is a woman and a TM who is living as a man is a man.

If every person on these threads kept at the front of their minds

An increase in transphobia is not an acceptable price to pay for protecting women

These discussions would look and, more importantly, feel very different

If I visit a doctor it is a private not a public transaction and not something I do every day. If I ovulate or not is no one's business. My mother never had a period from the age of 25 until her death at 94. A good friend never ovulated or had children after she had cervical cancer at the age of 32. Are you saying their biology mattered and they were not women? You have actually vividly illustrated why it isn't possible to use biology or science in everyday life, because you do not, cannot and should not know the intimacies of anyone else's body unless they choose to tell you about them, and making assumptions or posting generalities about women is demeaning and dangerous for all women.

Isn't this missing the point?

Who is asking to know the intimate details of your body?

The medical relevance to your biological sex might matter if you present to your doctor with the symptoms of a possible heart attack - symptoms which are not infrequently quite different to those presenting in males.

It also might matter in relation to various other conditions and illnesses which are known to statistically affect women more than men - or the other way round.

Whether you ovulate or not won't be of any interest to the wider public, but it might be relevant to a member of the health profession if he or she is attempting to form a diagnosis relating to symptoms you present with.

As for those women who don't ovulate, or haven't for an extended period of time, these are anomalies that usually have a cause - it's no different to men who have difficulty peeing, or all the other things that don't work properly with the male anatomy. They are not the norm and it's quite useful for a doctor to know whether you're a biological male or female when he or she is attempting to figure out what's gone wrong. Unless you think the intimate details of your body are not their concern either unless you choose to tell them?

I agree Glorianny that mixed sports isn't just a trans issue, in fact it isn't a trans issue at all because no one's claiming to be/identifying as a member of the opposite sex and gaining an advantage by doing so.

I believe that women needs spaces without men. Not going to stop saying that.

Galaxy

I believe that women needs spaces without men. Not going to stop saying that.

Is anyone asking that of you?

Yes, that response is missing the point Dickens and you've illustrated this with a very good post.

Is there an increase in transphobia though VS or is there simply an increase in concern and vigilance caused by the unacceptable behaviour of a minority of the trans community?

Yes there is an increase in transphobia, more than double

We all have a responsibility when discussing issues

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/hate-crime-transgender-uk-figures-b2196759.html

If you see anything of concern report it. I generally ignore attempts to control speech.

You cant change sex.
Women need some single sex spaces as specified in the equality act.
There are serious concerns being raised about social affirmation for young people.

For anyone interested in fairness in sport for females this link demonstrates how under 18yr boys out perform the top female record holders. There's another table if I can find it that shows the age of the youngest boy who comes under the female record holder's time.
law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/

And still we have transwomen saying they're being banned from sport which is a total outrageous lie. They can compete in sport just in their own sex class. Of course being banned from cheating does mean many won't be good enough to enter the higher level competitions. Nobody seems to care that transmen can't even begin to compete against men in male sports and if they're on testosterone they cannot compete in their own sex class.

An increase in transphobia is not an acceptable price to pay for protecting women

In the same way that constant accusations of transphobia are not an acceptable price for women to pay because they don't want a male-body in their intimate spaces.

How many times must it be said? Questioning one aspect of trans gender tenets is not questioning trans gender people's right to exist.

If you want to blame someone for transphobia - blame the media that exploit the issue - without giving a tinker's cuss about trans gender individuals, women, or men come to that. And which will just as quickly drop the matter when it finds another issue to exploit. And garner online clicks.

We cannot allow rabid hotheads on the Right or Left, 'shouty' popular media columnists with 'strong' opinions (on everything), high-profile figures who like to make a name for themselves by being controversial for the sake of it, to drown out reasoned and rational debate which is, I believe, what most on here are trying to achieve.

I've outlined some of the issues

It's individual responsibility and accountability after that point

Purely personal, people choose their own behaviour and the behaviour they are willing to accept in others

As the article states "Transgender issues have been heavily discussed on social media over the last year, which may have
led to an increase in related hate crimes". For me, this correlates with what I posted about an increase in concern and vigilance.

Immediately following the paragraph quoting Suella Braverman saying "a woman has two X chromosomes, a woman gives birth, a woman does not have a penis", is a reference to the Galop view that, "transphobic narratives in the media and by senior politicians has been allowed to grow without challenge and are translating into violence against our community".

What she said was factual and not transphobic so how do we know that there's an increase in transphobia, when what's being said is deemed as transphobic when as in this particular example, it isn't?

VioletSky

I've outlined some of the issues

It's individual responsibility and accountability after that point

Purely personal, people choose their own behaviour and the behaviour they are willing to accept in others

Purely personal, people choose their own behaviour and the behaviour they are willing to accept in others

Are you responsible for the violence perpetrated by some trans gender activists against women - and the threats issued by them?

I am responsible for my own behaviour, the way I present myself and the things I say. I am NOT responsible for other people's behaviour, or what they do.

It sounds awfully like you're using the actions of troublemakers to close down legitimate debate. And endorsing that violence and ugly rhetoric can only be avoided by the quietening of free-speech.

Why try to close down legitimate debate? What are those who wish to do so afraid of?

What she said Smileless is often viewed as a, sort of a trump card really

I think a lot of trans people, their medical doctors, their friends and families etc equate that to saying "this is reality, you are not inside reality"

Which, try to imagine how it feels and how hurtful it likely is shouting that with no other context, no acceptance, no room created for trans people to engage fully in life.

Imagine someone telling you, essentially, who you are, how you feel and how that impacts you is essentially irrelevant and the only box you may inhabit is the one carrying the label you least identify with.

As anyway, people to see

Have a good day everyone

I know people who would be hurt by my saying the world is round. Its important we still say it.
I think that's part of unease that many people feel, trying to enforce lying. I know it sometimes called compelled speech. For me its compelled lying.

Before I go

Dickens if you ever see me standing shoulder to shoulder or in anyway endorsing or agreeing with people who are verbally abusive or violent towards women... You may make that point

Until then, no you can't

You can earn me that would be a detrimental way to behave.. I would listen and agree

Warm not earn

Late now 😞

Warn!

For goodness sake!

It isn't reality is it VS. People can live as they choose providing they don't harm others but anyone living as a member of the opposite sex, who believes they are that sex, is living a fiction.

Whose shouting that? There's acceptance of their choice but not that they can change sex. How are trans people being prevented from engaging fully in life?

The only thing that they're being told is you cannot change sex, not who they are.

trying to enforce lying it certainly looks that way Galaxy.

How are trans people being prevented from engaging fully in life?

I'd love to hear an answer to that, and to which rights are denied them, and how we know that they are the most marginalised group in society. I'll wait a long time, though.

VS wrote . . .

Imagine someone telling you, essentially, who you are, how you feel and how that impacts you is essentially irrelevant and the only box you may inhabit is the one carrying the label you least identify with.

THAT post, from someone who spends a lot of time on GN telling people exactly that is a very unfunny joke.

Imagine being shouted at, being offered violence, receiving threats to your self and your family, being removed from your job, simply for speaking a biological truth.

*Imagine being constantly told that although you accept people’s rights to be trans, lesbian, gay or whatever, because
you care for women and their safety, you’re the wrong sort of feminist, you’re their version of gender critical, transphobic, etc.*
Do the posters who do that, subject people in real life to their attacks. or do they save it for the anonymous safety of GN?