Is there still a Conservative Party?

Typo. Oven Ready Brexit. The Forde Report

I always thought the policies during the Blair government were pretty conservative (small c) and I’d be happy to see a new government along those lines. How I vote makes no difference, there is a massive Tory majority here that is not going to get changed

So what is mainstream socialism?

I have always voted conservative as they used to be the party who, imo, respected the hardworking people who saved for what they wanted and saved for their old age so they didn't have to rely on the state. Alas not the case now and quite frankly I wouldn't know who to vote for now. Seems to me the conservatives look after very wealthy individuals and labour want to take money away from people who have worked hard their whole lives with their future plans eg the changes they intend to make to inheritance tax so more and more people end up paying 40% tax on already taxed money.

Well, the Conservatives promised to reduce the amount of money people paid if they had to go into a nursing home so their family would inherit some of their estate but I don’t think they implemented it ( I could be wrong but it was another reason why I nearly voted for them once).

My husband bought a copy of Noam Chomsky’s book ‘Necessary Illusions Thought control in democratic societies’ on EBay. It might cover some of the forum topic - looks promising.

Maybee said "I honestly believe that Labour under Keir Starmer and with support from the LibDems and Green Party will make the UK a place to be proud of again."

The next election is an open goal for Starmer, if he loses it will be entirely his own doing. I would like to see similar to Maybee's quote, with Labour the largest party, but their right wing leanings kept in check by other parties, including the Greens.

I think the post above, by knspol illustrates that however hard Starmer goes rightwards, however much he panders to the right wing press, it will never be enough.

Just before the last election I just did not know who to vote for. I've always been a floating voter but tended to vote for my local.MP because he supported a lot of local issues I agreed with. However having spoken to the Green candidate back then I was disappointed that they would not tell me where they were going to get the finances to do all the "wonderful" things they put in their manifesto. The only way they can get that money is to tax everyone more. Either direct or indirect. He wouldn't deny that but wouldn't confirm it either so they don't get my vote. I've resorted back to Liberal Democratics locally but I have no idea who I will vote for in GE next year. I'd like to see some form of coalition but not sure I'd like it to be Green and Labour. In an ideal world we could have a party that wants to work for the people first and the environment second.

Can never vote Tory. Always inflict so much damage on society with their cuts and have never done anything to make my life any better. What's the point of an extra pound in your pocket if you have no proper infra-structure or services. Party of the self-serving.

^ The only way they can get that money is to tax everyone more.^

If only this myth could be put to bed for once and for all, then voters wouldn't be swayed by the killer question in every General Election I can recall. The question being 'How are you going to pay for it?'.

At the prospect of a government putting money into the economy the MSM and opposition politicians throw up their hands in horror and scream that the party proposing to spend into the economy are going to bankrupt the nation!

Government spending doesn't work like that. The government can spend first, putting money to work by growing the economy and then taxing back enough to ensure that there isn't excess money sloshing around to cause inflation.

If the proposals create more economic activity, then more tax is going to be returned to the government anyway.

So, instead of thinking 'how is it going to be paid for?' voters could be thinking 'Is this proposal going to be good for the country, is it going to create more jobs, is it going to benefit all citizens, or some particularly disadvantaged sectors, is it going to harm the environment, etc. etc. In other words, all the questions we should be asking about policy proposals.

MaizieD at the risk of appearing cantankerous, from my perspective the government has spent mega billions but it wasn’t to grow the economy. It was to pay for Covid, lockdowns and also the energy crisis caused in part by the war in Ukraine.
Is there any money left to grow the economy?

There is not much difference these days between labour and conservatives, they are both acting too far left with tyrannical measures. Democracy is not as it should be and the conservatives have lost all conservative values. We need the Reform Party to bring back some common sense and allow us to take responsibility for ourselves instead of nanny state getting bigger and bigger.

Can you explain to me in which way they are acting too far left? And what are the Conservative values that UKIP, sorry the Reform Party will restore?

Richard Tice and Lawrence Fox. What a dream team…

JudyBloom

There is not much difference these days between labour and conservatives, they are both acting too far left with tyrannical measures. Democracy is not as it should be and the conservatives have lost all conservative values. We need the Reform Party to bring back some common sense and allow us to take responsibility for ourselves instead of nanny state getting bigger and bigger.

😂 joke, right?

ronib

MaizieD at the risk of appearing cantankerous, from my perspective the government has spent mega billions but it wasn’t to grow the economy. It was to pay for Covid, lockdowns and also the energy crisis caused in part by the war in Ukraine.
Is there any money left to grow the economy?

Well, if you'd read my post thoroughly you will see that I said that proposals for state spending could be assessed by voters on their benefit to the country, rather than a spurious 'affordability. And this was in the context of election manifesto proposals.

Yes, the current government spent 'mega billions, but this was in an emergency situation and wasn't put to the electorate to vote on. Part of its purpose was to keep the economy running when businesses weren't able to function normally (not growth) and it did, to a certain extent though it was poorly planned in that it didn't help sections of the population, such as some 3 million self employed people who weren't eligible under the qualifying criteria for support. It was also poorly executed and subject to fraud.

Also, of course, it was wasted by such things as trying to set up an entirely new test and trace system while completely ignoring excellent existing local authority systems which had experience and expertise could have been a foundation for the necessary expansion to cover the covid crisis.

And do I have to point out the unlawful procurement procedures which marginalised experienced providers of PPE and poured money into companies with no experience whatsoever but were given contracts through the VIP channel because they were set up by friends and relatives of tory ministers or by tory donors... Many of which sold the government unusable PPE at vastly inflated prices...

As for the financial support for energy bills, it was a good scheme, but marred by the fact that the government did nothing to prevent profiteering by the energy companies, nor i it attempting to claw back the excess profits by way of a windfall tax.

So much poorly planned and executed state spending...

Is there any money left to grow the economy?

The government cannot run out of money. It creates money all the time and could create enough for well planned and executed spending if it had a mind to. Which our current government doesn't.

Spending on the NHS, Education, the criminal justice system, regulation of the water industry, improving social care, green energy (and other sectors which people might name) are all areas where the money spent would sustain business and promote economic activity with the money spent to a very large extent returning to the government via taxation.

I would just point out that since the global financial crisis in 2008 governments have 'created' some £900billion of new money. Despite the common belief that 'money printing' causes inflation' there has been no general inflation resulting from this money creation. There was inflation of financial asset prices as much of the created money ended up with already wealthy people, but this is not something that affects most of the population.

The current inflation has been caused by increased costs of goods and services because of a variety of causes. But those causes do not include excess money in the economy.

Having quickly read through the posts on this thread, I would just like to mention that a few weeks ago in PMQ's when Ed Davey stood up to speak there was constant barracking coming from both sides of the house and the Speaker made no attempt to stop it. I found this reprehensible. I do not have a definite political affiliation to any party (although I am never going to vote Tory) but I could not believe that the leader of the Lib Dems was effectively being prevented from presenting his views. It was sickening. A plague on both of your houses!

I’m afraid the Speaker is very weak. I missed that but I have written to the Speakers Office and complained about how he sometimes reprimands people unfairly and, at other times ignores bad behaviour.

Welcome to our worldSINGINGNUTTY the SNP ....elected by the Scottish voters get treated appallingly by both sides of the house ...every day .Often yelled at to F off back to Scotland and more.
Democracy its not ,in any way shape, or form .Of course even labour or conservative Scottish MP's not that there are many,wouldn't be allowed to gain any position in government .
,David Camerons EVEL saw to that ,we cant vote on any English matters yet the vast majority of MP's who are ENGLISH can vote on and veto anything we have already passed in Holyrood.
Surely thats a breach of the ACT OF UNION between the two countries who signed it ...or has no one noticed its no longer.if it ever was, a UNION !

Never ever has the Conservative Party been fine.
Even Churchill was voted out after the war. He was the enemy of Scotland putting non Scottish troops in the Centre of Glasgow when the voters were starving. He put the Scottish troops in barracks in case they rebelled.
None of the Conservatives care. Look at Boris - where are his brains?
Look at Thatcher - she prevented any chance of employment in Scotland causing large scale emigration. Promised a motorway and failed. Just closed the whole chance of any work. Oh and don’t forget Heath and the many strikes for survival decent pay. Small firms closing, never to open again.
No no no there is no Conservative Party and long may that be the case. They’ve proved yet again to be failures.
The Labour Party is struggling and getting no where. Tony Blair did them so much harm. Gordon Brown did his best but Blair ruined any prospect for Brown. The SNP are having internal probs. The Liberal Dems, where are they? Who do I vote for?
I genuinely don’t know. My family have a life long interest/passion re politics, therefore not voting is not an option, where do I place my X when I stand in the voting booth, just me and my pencil? What do I do? I’m open to suggestions.

I was reading today about an estate on the Brighton outskirts that has used lottery money to completely refurbish both the park, house and 18th century village.

Apparently the whole estate was purchased by the council after the war, and it has provided countless pleasure to generations since.

It occurred to me that there wouldn’t be a council in the U.K. that would have that sort if money to spare even in this time of plenty compared to the immediate post war years. This government has consistently cut funding to the councils since they took office.

This past week or so, I have been unlucky enough to have to use the A&E service in a couple of counties. I think it threw up in stark relief the way the service is beginning to crumble. 9 hrs wait in one and 5hrs in the next with walking wounded who previously would have been seen by the GP using valuable resources that should be for only the seriously ill. In fact at Worthing A&E the consultant came out and pleaded with anyone who thought they could manage until the following day to do so and go home.

Post the war we set up the NHS - free at the point of use for all.

The U.K. at this time was probably in as much debt as it had ever been, with post war growth yet to materialise - which didn’t really take off until after we joined the EC.

My point is (if you haven’t yet lost the will to live) that, understanding this was all achieved because WE HAD THE POLITICAL WILL - not because we were awash with revenue income.

Our country is in the state it is in because of political dogma by the Tory party. Either that or they are utterly clueless. Probably both.

our country is in the state it is because of political dogma by the Tory party
Lovely lady, if you genuinely can’t see this and still don’t understand your vote goes to the party most likely to keep the tories out - I give up

Iam64

*our country is in the state it is because of political dogma by the Tory party*
Lovely lady, if you genuinely can’t see this and still don’t understand your vote goes to the party most likely to keep the tories out - I give up

I’m not sure what you mean?

😄😄😄 oh I see now what you were saying.

I thought you were calling me lovely lady😄😄😄😄😄😄 I am so dim.

LovelyLady
I would say that if you live in an area where the a Conservative win is possible then vote for whichever party is likely to defeat them.
If, like me, you live in a area where the Conservatives have no chance, then vote for a party that is to the left of Keir Starmer's Labour party. That is not helping the Tories, but, I think, giving a bit of a hint that tacking further and further to the right can alienate voters who have traditionally voted Labour,