Is there still a Conservative Party?

Starmer Labour is now Conservative with a capital C.

There are no differences in the two main parties.

Plus factionalism completely out of control. No democracy. No erroneous jibes the truth.

You’re making yourself look silly Grany. Is Starmer a member of the Conservative Party? No, he isn’t. Start a new thread for goodness sake.

I think that Starmer is embracing many of the policies which were traditionally conservative. No commitment to end privatisation in the NHS, no commitment to taxing the rich. He is at the same time removing anyone who is to the left of the party. So what is left will be a party with conservative values and only the name will be Labour.

grany I don’t think that you have ever started a thread about your particular interest. Consequently I and I’m sure others have no real clear idea as to your issue.

You need a clear and detailed OP that. Outlines exactly your problem with the Labour Party.

People can then if they wish have a sensible chat about whether they agree or disagree with your issues.

Much better than this silly sniping from the sidelines, where all you seem to be achieving is to irritate the reader, and gaining nothing for your cause.

Glorianny

I think that Starmer is embracing many of the policies which were traditionally conservative. No commitment to end privatisation in the NHS, no commitment to taxing the rich. He is at the same time removing anyone who is to the left of the party. So what is left will be a party with conservative values and only the name will be Labour.

Perhaps start another thread?

Whitewavemark2

grany I don’t think that you have ever started a thread about your particular interest. Consequently I and I’m sure others have no real clear idea as to your issue.

You need a clear and detailed OP that. Outlines exactly your problem with the Labour Party.

People can then if they wish have a sensible chat about whether they agree or disagree with your issues.

Much better than this silly sniping from the sidelines, where all you seem to be achieving is to irritate the reader, and gaining nothing for your cause.

This exactly Whitewavemark2, thank you for putting it so well.

MayBee70

Grany

KS and those that run the party do not want anyone left or moderate left. Video Starmer goes FULL DICTATOR Owen Jones. A politician Ian Driscoll very capable man serving mayor who has worked tirelessly for his community including achieved Very Many Good Things, a driving force for a Green Industrial revolution The party banned him. Because he is not on the right of the Labour Party.

If Owen Jones doesn’t like Keir that’s even more of a reason for me to support him. He doesn’t, for some reason, want a Labour government but just wants to remain in permanent opposition meaning about everything….I don’t buy The Guardian because he writes in it. He isn’t a journalist. He’s just a very silly boy.

There's a lot more to the Guardian than Owen Jones' column.

I know. I read The Times online because DH subscribes to it. And, if I was out and about and wanted to buy a newspaper I would buy the Guardian ( I was a long time Observer reader for years). I like The Times because I love Caitlin Moran’s weekly column. I know one journalist shouldn’t put me off a newspaper put he is so venomously against a party that imo are the only party that can rid us of the most corrupt government I’ve ever known that I just can’t stomach him.

Whitewavemark2

Glorianny

I think that Starmer is embracing many of the policies which were traditionally conservative. No commitment to end privatisation in the NHS, no commitment to taxing the rich. He is at the same time removing anyone who is to the left of the party. So what is left will be a party with conservative values and only the name will be Labour.

Perhaps start another thread?

Why? Does it bother you that politics has shifted so far to the right? The Conservative party as Chris Patten knew it may no longer exist but Labour are a good replacement. And the way Starmer is chucking left wingers out the party shows it is no longer left wing. Who knows maybe that's what he is aiming for the traditional conservative vote.

Given that many traditional Labour voters, given the choice between Boris Johnson and a socialist Labour leader helped give the Conservatives a frighteningly huge majority at the last election perhaps Labour need to get a few Conservative voters to vote for them.

Glorianny

Whitewavemark2

Glorianny

I think that Starmer is embracing many of the policies which were traditionally conservative. No commitment to end privatisation in the NHS, no commitment to taxing the rich. He is at the same time removing anyone who is to the left of the party. So what is left will be a party with conservative values and only the name will be Labour.

Perhaps start another thread?

Why? Does it bother you that politics has shifted so far to the right? The Conservative party as Chris Patten knew it may no longer exist but Labour are a good replacement. And the way Starmer is chucking left wingers out the party shows it is no longer left wing. Who knows maybe that's what he is aiming for the traditional conservative vote.

Did you deliberately type ‘conservative vote’ with a small ‘c’ Glorianny? If you did, you’re probably right, as the majority of voters are conservative I would say - but not all of them by any means are Conservative voters.

It's chronic isn't it the Labour Party now. Jamie Driscoll being interviewed on TV accusing him of talking about films with Ken Loach who would you believe is accused of antisemitism as he supported the banned groups that if you joined before the ban you were kicked out of the Labour Party. Ken loach has made many good films about the poorest in society and this helped communities and his politics are on the left too. Its hogwash what they are accusing Ken and now Jamie Unite the union said would be serious consequences if Labour stopped the democratic process of being allowed to put your name forward for selection. I think that Labour is Conservative we are talking about conservatism and why not talk about this in context of conservatism and the shift of Labour in thst direction I agree with Glorianny

Article today in The Guardian by Simon Jenkins about how Starmer said he wants to give more power and autonomy to the regions but won't let the North East choose their own mayoral candidate.

Does the Conservative party still exist? Yes, but now there are two.

For I think the third time, do people not understand that there is a difference between conservative and the Conservative Party?

Casdon

For I think the third time, do people not understand that there is a difference between conservative and the Conservative Party?

Of course we do. In fact it is something I use quite deliberately.
The whole of the NE is shocked about Jamie Driscoll. I haven't met one person who thinks he is far left. Quite what Starmer is up to no one knows. But one things certain, it is a sad day for democracy. No Conservative party but a lot of far right individuals in favour of awful things. No Labour party but a sort of Conservative look-alike. And good, competent caring people chucked out of politics, because they talked to the wrong people. Whichever way you look at it the future is grim.

Have a look at Rafael Behr's book - 'Politics - A Survivor's Guide.'

Glorianny

Casdon

For I think the third time, do people not understand that there is a difference between conservative and the Conservative Party?

Of course we do. In fact it is something I use quite deliberately.
The whole of the NE is shocked about Jamie Driscoll. I haven't met one person who thinks he is far left. Quite what Starmer is up to no one knows. But one things certain, it is a sad day for democracy. No Conservative party but a lot of far right individuals in favour of awful things. No Labour party but a sort of Conservative look-alike. And good, competent caring people chucked out of politics, because they talked to the wrong people. Whichever way you look at it the future is grim.

The future is more grim if the Conservatives win the next election. And that is what is going to happen if people continue to criticise Starmer. He’s the leader of the Labour Party, they are the only alternative to the Conservatives and we need to support him. I’ve always liked Ken Loach but have realised that he is an out and out Corbynite. Corbyn is one of the reasons why we have the government that we now have. Maybe Keir is being ruthless but is that a bad thing in a politician. I am conservative with a small c and I want this country to go back to how it used to be before Johnson destroyed it. Populism is resulting in far right leaders in many countries ( heaven help us if Trump is re elected) and there is no way that Keir is in that bracket. The only way that the Conservatives can win the next election is by persuading the electorate that Labour and Conservative are one and the same party. Is Keir supporting the Rwanda scheme? Cuts in health and education? The Conservative Party as we knew it is dead but they’re trying to drag Labour down with them. The electorate were offered socialism and they chose Boris Johnson instead. Let’s hope they don’t decide to choose to vote for the next leader in waiting who is Braverman.

GrannyGravy13

MayBee70

But isn’t that what the LibDems have always been?

Therein lies the problem, I have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stand for.

If you want to know what the LibDems stand for, you could check out their website: www.libdems.org.uk/values . Personally, I think they're a pretty good set of values.

Glorianny

Casdon

For I think the third time, do people not understand that there is a difference between conservative and the Conservative Party?

Of course we do. In fact it is something I use quite deliberately.
The whole of the NE is shocked about Jamie Driscoll. I haven't met one person who thinks he is far left. Quite what Starmer is up to no one knows. But one things certain, it is a sad day for democracy. No Conservative party but a lot of far right individuals in favour of awful things. No Labour party but a sort of Conservative look-alike. And good, competent caring people chucked out of politics, because they talked to the wrong people. Whichever way you look at it the future is grim.

That’s where we differ Glorianny, because being conservative with a small c is the only way forward for this country at the moment, and if that means consolidation of the middle ground voters, who are the majority, by neutralising the left of the party, which is a small minority then that’s how it has to be. If the left truly believe the public are behind them, then as I’ve said a number of times before, the way forward is to form another party. I think the left knows that is doomed to fail - but it’s because the electorate don’t want that, not because of Starmer, who is much more perceptive than you give him credit for.

MayBee70

Glorianny

Casdon

For I think the third time, do people not understand that there is a difference between conservative and the Conservative Party?

Of course we do. In fact it is something I use quite deliberately.
The whole of the NE is shocked about Jamie Driscoll. I haven't met one person who thinks he is far left. Quite what Starmer is up to no one knows. But one things certain, it is a sad day for democracy. No Conservative party but a lot of far right individuals in favour of awful things. No Labour party but a sort of Conservative look-alike. And good, competent caring people chucked out of politics, because they talked to the wrong people. Whichever way you look at it the future is grim.

The future is more grim if the Conservatives win the next election. And that is what is going to happen if people continue to criticise Starmer. He’s the leader of the Labour Party, they are the only alternative to the Conservatives and we need to support him. I’ve always liked Ken Loach but have realised that he is an out and out Corbynite. Corbyn is one of the reasons why we have the government that we now have. Maybe Keir is being ruthless but is that a bad thing in a politician. I am conservative with a small c and I want this country to go back to how it used to be before Johnson destroyed it. Populism is resulting in far right leaders in many countries ( heaven help us if Trump is re elected) and there is no way that Keir is in that bracket. The only way that the Conservatives can win the next election is by persuading the electorate that Labour and Conservative are one and the same party. Is Keir supporting the Rwanda scheme? Cuts in health and education? The Conservative Party as we knew it is dead but they’re trying to drag Labour down with them. The electorate were offered socialism and they chose Boris Johnson instead. Let’s hope they don’t decide to choose to vote for the next leader in waiting who is Braverman.

The electorate were offered Brexit-oven ready if I remember rightly.

Sorry I don't believe the electorate were ever offered socialism in 2019 the mainstream media made sure of that.
As for immigration, health and education. Your guess is as good as mine. Because whatever Starmer has said he certainly hasn't endorsed Labour policies.

So what is mainstream socialism?

Curious that the Corbyn supporters still blame the right wing media for the devastating defeat. They must have been canvassing in different areas than mine, where we were constantly told they’d never vote Labour with yon mon in charge. Of course, I need to remind myself, all these life long Labour voters were brain washed by the daily Mail, totally unable of independent thought

Hopefully not. The current Labour Party under Starmer seem to be more Conservative than Labour. I would just like the rotten to the core politics of today to be gone never to return.

Iam64

Curious that the Corbyn supporters still blame the right wing media for the devastating defeat. They must have been canvassing in different areas than mine, where we were constantly told they’d never vote Labour with yon mon in charge. Of course, I need to remind myself, all these life long Labour voters were brain washed by the daily Mail, totally unable of independent thought

There were paid labour staffers working against a Corbyn win. A concerted effort to stop Corbyn from media Blair and Mandelson And oven ready brevity Starmer saying we will put remain on a vote. The Firde Report The Labour Files.

I think we need a government that provides the basis for everything. Good healthcare starting from birth. Good affordable nursery and childcare. Free school meals. A well funded education system where teachers don’t have massive class sizes or are under resourced. Good apprentice schemes for school leavers that aren’t academic. Forward thinking employment for people. Fair taxation. A good relationship with Europe. After years of fighting it I’ve realised that we do have to make Brexit work and I’m pretty sure that Keir has been travelling to Europe and speaking with people to heal the wounds that Brexit has caused. If we do rejoin the EU it won’t happen quickly and we have to rebuild our economy: that’s going to take a long time. I was called a cretin on a rejoin Facebook page the other day* because I said I was voting for Labour, even though I pointed out that I joined and campaigned for the LibDems on that platform. And look what happened to them at the election. *It left me feeling pretty sore and confused. The Conservative Party, the way that it’s going, terrifies me. We can’t have more years of this. I honestly believe that Labour under Keir Starmer and with support from the LibDems and Green Party will make the UK a place to be proud of again.