Has the penny dropped (as fast as the Pound)- Brexit is a disaster

Seagull72

I agree with you Fp. It has limited my life choices in many ways. Hopefully, we will rejoin the EU one day. As for Health and Safety, along with the state of our beaches and rivers, this government can't be trusted to look after people's health and are trying to overturn current EU Health and Safety initiatives to save money. People who voted for the Brexit lies still can't admit the damage that has been done. They are either very wealthy or live in their own bubble Don't let the bullies silence you.

If you are tlaking about my post on the first page

I meant how Health and Safety was tighened up in the 80s, or some such time. Decades before Brexit.

My point being, and I will try and put it in different words for you, some things are done or not done. Sometimes, quite often actually, it cannot be measured properly what would have happened with certain things, if those things did not happen. Or did happen.

Same in our lives of course If we had gone down a different path, there might have been some better outcomes and some worse ones. Sometimes no one will ever know what might have happened.

If we had Remained, there would have been some better bits and some worse bits.
How can that possibly properly be measured? It can never be.

So no matter how many times someone wants some answers to whether things would have been better if we had Remained, there can never be all the definitive answers.
No matter how annoyed some Remainers remain about the outcome now.

Fleurpepper

MerylStreep

Freya5
I’ve always believed the eu will fall apart. This will come about through the collapse of the euro. This has been spoken about for many years ( since its inception)

www.reuters.com/plus/could-the-euro-collapse#

the only value which has fallen through the floor is Sterling.

Yes, it is lovely where I am currently, fancy that, and I have just returned from Italy- it was very lovely too.

When we moved here 1 £ was worth x 2.50 - and it is now just about over x 1 - a loss of about 60% (and 60% of our pensionable income too).

We did not move for it to be lovely, but to look after my very elderly parents, now both gone. Why not return to the UK then, some will ask. But I do think you know the answer! The country has changed beyond recognition and at our age, with our medical history, relying on the NHS is NOT a viable option.

My guess is the States. I can remember when £1 bought US$2.4 for many years. (no need to reply)

You make some good points about leave voters Maggiemaybe. I voted remain, but found some aspects of the leave arguments quite compelling. In the end, I voted remain because I believed it would be better for the economy. Rabid remainers might argue that the economy is now trashed because of Brexit but it’s not as simple as that because of Covid and the Ukraine war. We don’t know how our economy might be performing if these things hadn’t happened but Brexit had happened. I’m certain we would still have inflation and increased energy prices, in or out of the EU.

Remoaners/Rejoiners DO NOT like any facts that they have not made up. The UK SAVED 7 times 18 Billion by not being in the EU for the next Seven Years. WE DID NOT pay 200 Billion in the EU Covid Revoery Fund nor did WE pay 200 Billion for Covid Vaccines . WE ARE NOT in Recession as the Eurozone is and OUR food Inflation is way below the European Average and falling as theirs is rising.

Mamie

As British in France, Brexit has caused us consistent financial loss because of the impact of the decline of the pound on our pensions (we have the spreadsheets) and lots of minor irritations. What still makes me most angry is the impact on the choices available to our grandchildren in terms of their right to study and work in other European countries.
I would not, however, bother to start threads about it on Gransnet. It is quite clear from polling that younger generations of British are turning against Brexit and seeing it as a mistake, which was fuelled by vested interests and vainglorious and incompetent politicians.
The views of our generation for or against Brexit will cease to have any relevance.

I agree with you. Things that I miss following Brexit:

No young music groups touring in France as far as I can see.
No choirs or theatrical groups.
Several shops not selling abroad

Luckily I can still buy cheddar some times. Despite living in a country which is very proud of its cheeses, we don't have anything that equals a good Cheddar. There are several that are similar but not quite the same.

Mamie

Just out of interest are the workers from Spanish territories in North Africa or elsewhere?

It didn't matter, their working conditions were appalling.
They were treated as slaves.

Wiser

I'm with Fleurpepper. I hope Keir Starmer moves us more closer to Europe. Their is strength in unity.

Not an easy thing to achieve when you're in Oppoition 🤔

My stylus is playing up, please excuse the typos!!

Or do the Swiss still argue endlessly about this?

Erm.... yes Callistemom, apparently they do.

Dinahmo

Fleurpepper

MerylStreep

Freya5
I’ve always believed the eu will fall apart. This will come about through the collapse of the euro. This has been spoken about for many years ( since its inception)

www.reuters.com/plus/could-the-euro-collapse#

the only value which has fallen through the floor is Sterling.

Yes, it is lovely where I am currently, fancy that, and I have just returned from Italy- it was very lovely too.

When we moved here 1 £ was worth x 2.50 - and it is now just about over x 1 - a loss of about 60% (and 60% of our pensionable income too).

We did not move for it to be lovely, but to look after my very elderly parents, now both gone. Why not return to the UK then, some will ask. But I do think you know the answer! The country has changed beyond recognition and at our age, with our medical history, relying on the NHS is NOT a viable option.

My guess is the States. I can remember when £1 bought US$2.4 for many years. (no need to reply)

Question for Fleurpepper

In a 1992 referendum Swiss voters rejected membership of the European Economic Area, which had been seen as a stepping stone on the way to membership of the European Union (EU).[4] Polls consistently showed that the Swiss did not want to join the European Union, which was confirmed in a 2001 referendum where over 75% voted against membership

Are the Swiss still arguing amongst themselves about the close result of the very close referendum they held in 1992 and a later more decisive referendum rejecting EU membership?

Is it a constant bone of contention in Switzerland or did they get up, dust themselves down and get on with making the best of the situation?
Which is what, I believe, we should be doing and I hope Sunak will do now Johnson has left politics 🤞

CheersMeDears

^Or do the Swiss still argue endlessly about this?^

Erm.... yes Callistemom, apparently they do.

Oh, X post, mine took ages to type 😀

The disaster is that Brexit has not been delivered !! We are still tied to hundreds of EU laws. If Brexit had been implemented as it should have been, this country would be so much better off. We have been betrayed by the remainers. Brexit can't be blamed when it hasn't been done properly. We need our own sovereignty and democratic values not tyrrany which is the way it's all going now.

If I had the patience I would go through this and pick out the examples of provocative language. Rabid remainders caught my eye. Lately, probably to do with the anonymity of social media, debates are too binary and often involve insulting the other person's point of view. People should try to write as if they were speaking face to face with each other. Less entertaining perhaps, but more productive.

Judy could you give me s a small selection of which rules you are referring to please.

Us not me

maddyone

Just interested sue, but how have the rules changed that make it more difficult for you to trade? And the same question about your friends? What has changed that prevents you from trading? Especially trading in books?

I voted remain by the way, but interested to know.

Export regulations are a nightmare for small traders - whatever they are trading in.

JudyBloom

The disaster is that Brexit has not been delivered !! We are still tied to hundreds of EU laws. If Brexit had been implemented as it should have been, this country would be so much better off. We have been betrayed by the remainers. Brexit can't be blamed when it hasn't been done properly. We need our own sovereignty and democratic values not tyrrany which is the way it's all going now.

Probably a good job that we’re still tied into many EU laws given that so many are there to protect us and the environment. And didn’t we have a vote on all of those laws anyway? It isn’t the remainders that have prevented any of these things: how could we possibly have done that given that we lost the referendum and the UK has now ‘taken back control’. Maybe, just maybe, many things haven’t been implemented because they were empty promises that couldn’t have been implemented anyway.

Oreo

It’s very lovely in so many parts of the UK too, places too numerous to mention.All this “changed beyond recognition” stuff is rubbish.The NHS has needed changes for donkeys years to make it work properly for all, but still works for serious illness and ops needed.
It seems your main concern is that you’ve not got the money you used to have, well that’s the case all through Europe.

All those who are EU citizens are paid in euros. The state pensions of those of us who live in the EU are the same rate as the rest of you (subject to our contribution records of course) but they suffer the vagaries of the exchange rate.

And, I don’t remember a great dialogue pre referendum about the poor EU workers coming here and being poorly paid. I thought, if it was mentioned,it was more ‘EU workers coming here, taking our jobs….’? I will admit that there was an argument that EU workers were willing to work for less than UK ones therefore employers were happy to employ them and it gave them an excuse to keep down wages for UK workers, too. Am I right in thinking that was the reason for some unions being anti EU? Then again, it wasn’t because of EU rules that workers were underpaid because the government could have introduced a minimum wage because, contrary to public belief, being in the EU didn’t stop the UK government from making it’s own rules.

What a crackin' post FLEURPEPPER. Twelve pages! So much for the 'oh we are so over it brigade', who I guess voted for Brexit. Well they certainly didn't manage to shut down the thread with their, 'that is so last year' tactic. I haven't read all the way through, so apologies most sincere if this has been posted already, but the best way to shut down this thread would be for each and everyone of them, (we know who you are now), to tell us what BREXIT has done for them, or their family, or their community, or the factories in their neighbourhood, or their businesses, or their young touring musicians, or their Fishermen Friends, or their car vendors, or their clever young relatives who want to study abroad. Just one tangible benefit. One from each of you?

Maremia I suggest you read the whole thread. You have completely missed the point.

Health and Safety rules - tightened up after the Herald of Free Enterprise (188 lives lost) and the Marchioness collision on the Thames (51 lives lost).

The Tories want to relax the rules (they may have already started) and the number of deaths at UK docks are increasing.

…they suffer the vagaries of the exchange rate.

Surely a person takes the possibilities exchange rate ‘vagaries’ into account before deciding to move abroad?

Aveline

Maremia I suggest you read the whole thread. You have completely missed the point.

I’ve read the whole thread and still haven’t read of any Brexit benefits that have been verified…what I have read is a lot of people that seem to think that someone only has a right to say anything about this country if they live here 100% of the time. And that any criticism of brexit is a criticism of the UK itself.

For me, the saddest things are the changes to environmental laws and the regular stories of sewage being dumped.

I watched a news item about Weymouth and the large amount of seaweed being blown onto the shoreline. Apparently some people thought it smelt. The head of the Town Council said that it was just a natural seaweed smell but I was left wondering whether sewage had been caught up in it before it was blown in from the sea. I remember as a child reaching out for what I thought was a cork floating in the sea at Wyke Regis but I was wrong!