Criminal or a Health Matter?

Jannipans, it wasn't a supply company that prescribed the abortion tablets, it was a Pregnancy Advisory bureau that is there specifically to help and support women in early pregnancy. In normal circumstances, they would have requested her to attend in person so that she could be physically examined and it would have been obvious that she was in an advanced stage of pregnancy. But because she didn't contact them until May 2020, the covid lockdowns had begun and accessible healthcare was difficult, hence she was only interviewed remotely. And that's how she was able to lie to them and deceive them into believing that she was only 7 weeks pregnant. It's hardly the pregnancy Advisory Service that's at fault. The fault lies solely with the woman who knew she was pregnant in October 2019 and did nothing about it until May 2020.

Unless I have the same information regarding this, as the judge did…..I am unwilling to comment.

Mallin

Unless I have the same information regarding this, as the judge did…..I am unwilling to comment.

You probably can get most of the info online and in some cases the court transcripts are in the public domain unless a closed court

I have downloaded the full judgment. Here it is:
www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/R-v.-Foster-sentencing-remarks-12.6.23.pdf

It is not at all uncommon for babies born at 32 weeks to live entirely normal lives with no problems. I was reading today that a baby born at 34 weeks is now considered full term. This is infanticide not abortion. I think a custodial sentence is the most appropriate punishment in this instance but she should have psychiatric treatment while in prison.

Tragic, but, there's no reason to have an unwanted pregnancy these days. If she didn't want another baby bit had unprotectedsex, she could have gone to a pharmacy or sexual health clinic for a morning after pill.

Jackiest

Does prison ever do any good? My granddaughter was born at 30 weeks and was an idividual with rights at 2 weeks old. The thought of killing her outside the womb or inside the womb I find unthinkable and fills me with horror.

I also had a much wanted first granddaughter born prematurely at 30 weeks and am pretty horrified by this news story. However I don't know all the ins and outs and find it hard to believe that any woman would choose to kill her baby and then go through labour knowing that she would deliver a still birth.
I believe that she must have been pretty desperate to go to these lengths. Sending her to prison seems unnecessary and cruel for her children.

the woman must have been desperate
- during Covid most people had very little access to healthcare and where could she turn?
those that label this woman as a murderer have no compassion

the sentence is barbaric .

@Germanshepherdsmum, thank you for the link.
Very helpful.

So it’s a 14 month custodial sentence, then out on licence.

Certainly makes clear that ‘anything that you say may be taken down & used etc’ does mean something when it comes to Court.

"Two wrongs never make a right" ..

The woman should not be imprisoned.

She should have NOT waited that long considering the laws of the U.K. on abortion rights; however, imprisoning a woman with three children is also a crime against humanity.

My view.

ordinarygirl

the woman must have been desperate
- during Covid most people had very little access to healthcare and where could she turn?
those that label this woman as a murderer have no compassion

the sentence is barbaric .

Read the judgement which I posted above.

eazybee

The woman has knowingly committed a criminal offence, and that has to be recognised. I don't know the background circumstances, but feel a custodial sentence is inappropriate.

As always, where is the father?

I'm not aware that the father has been mentioned, but presumably the relationship had broken down as she had returned to live with her (previously estranged) partner.
It is a horrible crime. However she was desperate and may have put off having an abortion because she wanted the baby - if there was a way of doing it without leaving herself and her other children homeless. Who knows?
If only she could have found herself a place in a refuge or somewhere similar, but I guess that there was no reason for a refuge to take her in as she had somewhere to live and was not under threat.
You would have thought that the local authority could have housed a pregnant single parent with three children, but I don't know if she even approached anyone.

Germanshepherdsmum

ordinarygirl

the woman must have been desperate
- during Covid most people had very little access to healthcare and where could she turn?
those that label this woman as a murderer have no compassion

the sentence is barbaric .

Read the judgement which I posted above.

The saddest thing about it is that she knew she was pregnant for at least three months before she took the drug, and was regularly googling how to get rid of her baby from early on in her pregnancy, so she could have sought an abortion while it was still legal.

cc

eazybee

The woman has knowingly committed a criminal offence, and that has to be recognised. I don't know the background circumstances, but feel a custodial sentence is inappropriate.

As always, where is the father?

I'm not aware that the father has been mentioned, but presumably the relationship had broken down as she had returned to live with her (previously estranged) partner.
It is a horrible crime. However she was desperate and may have put off having an abortion because she wanted the baby - if there was a way of doing it without leaving herself and her other children homeless. Who knows?
If only she could have found herself a place in a refuge or somewhere similar, but I guess that there was no reason for a refuge to take her in as she had somewhere to live and was not under threat.
You would have thought that the local authority could have housed a pregnant single parent with three children, but I don't know if she even approached anyone.

Read the judgement.

We do not know all the facts in this case, all I can think is the woman must have been desperate to do what she did, especially given she had already borne 3 children. The law is a very old one, the judge should have imposed the sentence but then suspended it. It serves nobody to put this woman in prison - she is not a threat to society, and it is also punishing her children, one of whom I believe has special needs. People commit violent crimes all the time and get away without going to prison - it seems really unfair to me, albeit typical of sentencing for women, many of whom are in prison when they should not be. Oddly enough, abortion is now decriminalised in Northern Ireland - but not the rest of the UK.

Have you read the judgement I posted? No, thought not.

What about the old saying of walking in someone's shoes before you judge them? There are some very harsh comments on here.
Personally I think something like this isn't done on a whim she would have to have been desperate, and, as others have said it's her children who will suffer the most.

JenniferEccles

She killed her baby. I’m wholly in favour of her being severely punished.

Harsh - you have no idea what her state of mind was at the time, or what pressure she may have been under. Ironically, if she had killed a baby due to, for example, post natal depression she would never have ended up in prison.

Germanshepherdsmum

cc

eazybee

The woman has knowingly committed a criminal offence, and that has to be recognised. I don't know the background circumstances, but feel a custodial sentence is inappropriate.

As always, where is the father?

I'm not aware that the father has been mentioned, but presumably the relationship had broken down as she had returned to live with her (previously estranged) partner.
It is a horrible crime. However she was desperate and may have put off having an abortion because she wanted the baby - if there was a way of doing it without leaving herself and her other children homeless. Who knows?
If only she could have found herself a place in a refuge or somewhere similar, but I guess that there was no reason for a refuge to take her in as she had somewhere to live and was not under threat.
You would have thought that the local authority could have housed a pregnant single parent with three children, but I don't know if she even approached anyone.

Read the judgement.

Yes, I read it. This makes it clear that she was having trouble coming to a decision, presumably leaving it so long that she could not get a legal abortion. It says nothing of why she was having trouble coming to a decision - I simply suggest that this was because it wasn't what she wanted to do. Possibly in the end she knew that continuing with the pregnancy until her partner found out she was expecting another man's baby would mean that she had no home.
I agree that what she did was to kill a viable baby and it was a truly awful and illegal thing to have done.
Others have suggested that she could have had the baby adopted, but here again her partner would have known about it and she and her children would have lost their home.

The woman lied, deceiving those who supplied the tablets. Why not apply sooner, will we ever know? Sadly it's herchildren who will pay the price for her actions. Even if it was a suspended sentence the publicity of her actions would be just as bad.

Read the judgement! She was not mentally ill; a woman with postnatal depression is.

I really don’t know why I bothered to post the judgement. People continue to speculate without reading it.

That was to Saetana.

during Covid most people had very little access to healthcare and where could she turn?

But she was pregnant in October 2019! 5 months before covid had been identified and before any lock down. She didn't try to access healthcare until May 2020 and by then she was already 7 months pregnant. why don't people read the full thread before making ill informed comments

Thought you could use this Germanshepherdsmum.

Thanks Cheers. That’s just what I need! Alternatively I will resort to 🍷🍷🍷!